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Post by Mordecai on Jul 23, 2015 22:56:00 GMT
For the record, it takes a lot more to post this: Ya, I am out of form. I am sorry Grimmy... I apologize to your wife also. I am only human and can get sucked into a vortex as well as anyone. than it does to post this: Awww...isn't that sweet. Maybe we can be BFFs.
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Post by grimgryphon on Jul 23, 2015 23:05:48 GMT
For the record, it takes a lot more to post this: Ya, I am out of form. I am sorry Grimmy... I apologize to your wife also. I am only human and can get sucked into a vortex as well as anyone. than it does to post this: Awww...isn't that sweet. Maybe we can be BFFs. Level of caring = 0
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 23, 2015 23:12:17 GMT
I don't follow enough postings on SotA to answer your question honestly Caliya. I only really met Ravicus in recent months. Regardless of our pasts though, it seems that both of you are more than well-equipped for civil conversation. For me, because I'm a woman, I don't want to ever be perceived as backing down and running away crying. It's one of the reasons I always push back. Maybe it's mistaken, but that is the reason. I grew up with an A-hole for a father and I had to stand my ground. Gaming forums, and companies, are dominated by men, and the only way to interact is join them or leave them. Sure, I could make a male persona if I wanted. But I don't like to lie.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 23, 2015 23:15:45 GMT
I don't follow enough postings on SotA to answer your question honestly Caliya. I only really met Ravicus in recent months. Regardless of our pasts though, it seems that both of you are more than well-equipped for civil conversation. Trust me when I say, between Ravicus, Envy (especially), and Themo Locke purposely ganking up on me (I'm certain they PMed each other in planned forum attacks), the only way to survive that battlefield is to block the kinds of comments they made. They weren't moderated and truth be told, all 3 of them should've been permabanned long ago.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 24, 2015 1:11:54 GMT
Ok, that may be sorted. Now Ravi, since we're talking about copy/paste I'll do it for yet a third time. Show us the light fellow lich:
Ravi, if you were to have everyone here go over there, what you have us do? In what way would you have us voice our concerns and have discussions? Most of us here are adults, and have tried many avenues of support like kb has before retrieving our pitchforks, but one thing seems to remain the same.
That one thing is that Starr keeps getting up and talking about how transparent and inclusive they are, while at home in the forum it is nothing but cock blocking and banning. It is pretty clear that the Devs have already selected community members they want to deal with in order to fulfil their "requirements" to consider what they are doing crowdsourcing. The rest of us have been left out in the cold.
You are welcome here any time, and I wish more would come talk to us about this kind of stuff. Though I wish you guys would take off Lum's Glasses...
insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/lums-glasses/
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 24, 2015 2:20:22 GMT
Here is a truth: we spend a lot of time mocking Shroud, but it's a the kind where you secretly are afraid to admit how much you're enjoying yourself. And thing is, because it's not allowed over on Shroud, they lurk here because they secretly enjoy it too. They like feeling superior, that we "don't get it," and we like feeling superior that "we got it" and they have no clue. We love to hate.
In the end, I don't hate anyone over there, well maybe Envy and O'Sullivan and the fanboi mods Mystic and Koldar, but apart from them, I hold no ill feelings towards anyone. My real animosity comes towards the way the forums are handled, but at the top of the list is Portalarium and their unprofessional, sleazy way of doing business.
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Post by Ravicus on Jul 24, 2015 2:23:56 GMT
Ok, that may be sorted. Now Ravi, since we're talking about copy/paste I'll do it for yet a third time. Show us the light fellow lich: Ravi, if you were to have everyone here go over there, what you have us do? In what way would you have us voice our concerns and have discussions? Most of us here are adults, and have tried many avenues of support like kb has before retrieving our pitchforks, but one thing seems to remain the same. That one thing is that Starr keeps getting up and talking about how transparent and inclusive they are, while at home in the forum it is nothing but cock blocking and banning. It is pretty clear that the Devs have already selected community members they want to deal with in order to fulfil their "requirements" to consider what they are doing crowdsourcing. The rest of us have been left out in the cold. You are welcome here any time, and I wish more would come talk to us about this kind of stuff. Though I wish you guys would take off Lum's Glasses... insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/lums-glasses/ Thats a pretty large order to fill, and I am sure I will get some nice suggestions on what my answers might be. I will be called fanboi and other names but thats ok also. I won't claim to know how you can at this point try to get back to good to go over there with named accounts at least. I have had my share of altercations and have been banned myself. I guess what I would do is understand that real life sucks. There are always going to be those that will want the limelight. They will report you nonstop if they think you are not getting in lockstep with what they percieve is the grande scheme of things. The majority of my bans happened, and timelord also got banned for the same things, is the cannibalism push. It put all the self righteous people against us and they were reporting every post. posts were being deleted and such. Hell my first day on the forums I was moderated for saying "beating a dead horse". Lol, of course I got more warnings after that. Well I sucked it up though, and I learned to frame my arguments better. I realized that my tone (in words) could come across wrong and toxic. What I thought I was expressing in my head was not necessarily what people where thinking when they were reading them. Same with Caliya. I think she brings up some great points, but to me, the perception came across wrong. To me she framed her argument wrong. I am not saying she was wrong though, because intentions are good, but misread and its hard to convey emotion into text. Yes Shroud has some people that will be adamantly staunch and support portalarium. I try to support what I think is right. I have been at odds with them myself. Again its not so much what you say, its how its framed and try to think of how perception is. I am not trying to lecture you at all, this is just what I understand one of the problems to be. Another problem is the way that you react to posts. Here it doesnt matter so much. But in a controlled environment like that, with so many people from different places and different countries, and all have some monetary stake in the process, tensions are high, people are on edge, and everyone has their own Idea of how they want things to go. Ya I know care bare and noob and stuff like that are not offensive, at least to me, but to some they are, and they will report you. Most of the moderation I believe comes from people reporting others. I know though that some of the moderation comes from some of the moderators themselves. So instead of reacting dismissively try to see their point and then show them understand why you think their Idea is flawed. Honey instead of vinegar. With the Dev's, kuno and I have discussed this earlier in this thread. We both have messaged them and have had very little for response. We have shot them Ideas and tried to help. I have been very frustrated with this also. In my little world I wanted them to respond! But we are all in our own little world living in a bigger world. The devs are extremely busy, firelotus is extremely busy. I know you guys don't care much for her but actually she is not that bad of a person. She is human just like the rest of us. I cant even imagine the pressure she gets from jackasses like us. At one time I thought she hated me, but I stepped out of the box, and took some breaths, looked at the whole picture and then went back in. I don't think they cock block anyone really, I think we cockblock ourselves by the way we post things. If anything I would suggest port have more community managers to handle these hard situations and actually be able to talk one on one as humans because it would solve much of this problem. Port has a communication problem and thats what I think their flaw is. The people they select to help usually are the people that are around at the time they need help. I have tried to help many times but to be honest I have 0 tech experience and the only thing i can really do is bug report. But the people that I have seen helping are playing and on the forums giving good feedback, working with the community, and running events to keep the player base up and people not getting bored. I don't think it has much to do with money really, although the people with money do get the dev's ear a bit more when they have the round table meet ups and such. I guess part of being in that community is you have to get along with others. You cant force your ideas on people, you have to sell your ideas to people. Its politics, presentation, timing, and being in the right spot at the right time I guess. I don't know if this helps at all, I feel like I am rambling a bit, but it is from the heart. Portelarium is not a big bad wolf, they are a small company with a small staff trying to please everyone. Its a tall order and a hard one. But I remain confident that they will have a great product, as many others do as well.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 24, 2015 3:03:34 GMT
One problem with "framing an argument' is, if you don't behave as if you're a fan and add fluff around the central concern, there is no way to get along. My "like" count was over 2000 and a lot of that was when I added all kinds of things like, "Oh the scenery graphics are looking fantastic in the last release!" Bah.
Some people see the game as a product you pay for (that's how I see it). When product fulfillment is lacking, that's where attitudes turn bad.
Some people see the game as a way to fall at Lord British's feet as if he's the most brilliant game producer ever. Where player worship and RP isn't honored, attitudes go bad. Most these folks could care less about the game development. They simply "trust" because it's RG. Even though he's failed miserably at games and been sued, they still cling to him as some sort of god. And he milks it for all it's worth.
There are other people who paid for their titles dearly, and they also behave as if you talk down to them, how dare you. They think buying a title, people should look up to them as if they are the "game creators." I think that's just nonsense. They drop their pants and shit in the toilet just like any other human being. Yes, you all should now have a graphic image in your mind of RG doing just that.
In my whole life, I have never been a fanatic of any religion or person. I never hold anyone in such high esteem that I'd lick their boots. So many people at the forum really do act like that. I mean, paying $10K just to go to RG home and have a meal with him? Forget that. My opinion of people like that - why don't you have a very high self esteem? I wouldn't do it if it was Jesus Christ.
So the divisions are a lot deeper than the way we frame an argument. People want to stay on their little dream clouds and when you try to show them reality, they get steaming mad.
For the record, I have rarely reported anyone. The only time I have is in a thread where my post(s) got moderated and others on the opposing side didn't get knocked off for the same offense.
But believe me, that Duchess probably has calloused fingers pressing that report button. Off with their heads! That's exactly how she behaves. I don't care if people like that dropped a boatload of money into the game.
Personally speaking, there are a lot of people over there I don't want to "get along with." And they obviously feel the same about me. And I really don't care. It's one of the many reasons I sold my account.
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Post by Ravicus on Jul 24, 2015 3:16:40 GMT
One problem with "framing an argument' is, if you don't behave as if you're a fan and add fluff around the central concern, there is no way to get along. My "like" count was over 2000 and a lot of that was when I added all kinds of things like, "Oh the scenery graphics are looking fantastic in the last release!" Bah. Some people see the game as a product you pay for (that's how I see it). When product fulfillment is lacking, that's where attitudes turn bad. Some people see the game as a way to fall at Lord British's feet as if he's the most brilliant game producer ever. Where player worship and RP isn't honored, attitudes go bad. Most these folks could care less about the game development. They simply "trust" because it's RG. Even though he's failed miserably at games and been sued, they still cling to him as some sort of god. And he milks it for all it's worth. There are other people who paid for their titles dearly, and they also behave as if you talk down to them, how dare you. They think buying a title, people should look up to them as if they are the "game creators." I think that's just nonsense. They drop their pants and shit in the toilet just like any other human being. Yes, you all should now have a graphic image in your mind of RG doing just that. In my whole life, I have never been a fanatic of any religion or person. I never hold anyone in such high esteem that I'd lick their boots. So many people at the forum really do act like that. I mean, paying $10K just to go to RG home and have a meal with him? Forget that. My opinion of people like that - why don't you have a very high self esteem? I wouldn't do it if it was Jesus Christ. So the divisions are a lot deeper than the way we frame an argument. People want to stay on their little dream clouds and when you try to show them reality, they get steaming mad. For the record, I have rarely reported anyone. The only time I have is in a thread where my post(s) got moderated and others on the opposing side didn't get knocked off for the same offense. But believe me, that Duchess probably has calloused fingers pressing that report button. Off with their heads! That's exactly how she behaves. I don't care if people like that dropped a boatload of money into the game. Personally speaking, there are a lot of people over there I don't want to "get along with." And they obviously feel the same about me. And I really don't care. It's one of the many reasons I sold my account. I'm not going to tell you you are wrong. Free spirits as yourself find it hard to work in a confined environment. The problem is not everyone thinks the same. No one is really wrong in that respect. There are so many different personalities put in a blender. I don't want to step on your toes or rude to you. You did what you had to do. Its hard with a libertarian spirit to join a community where you have to follow rules. The rules are in place for this very reason. In order to get along with everyone there has to be a common premise, and that is trying to work with each other. I know you feel like you got the short end of the stick in there but as you stated you don't want to get along with some people, and maybe thats why your here. There is nothing wrong with that, its an emotional argument but non the less a valid one. The only thing I was saying in my previous post was how to try to "get listened to" and how to make your argument palatable as some one wants to engage in conversation, not in conflict.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 24, 2015 4:51:15 GMT
Ok, that may be sorted. Now Ravi, since we're talking about copy/paste I'll do it for yet a third time. Show us the light fellow lich: Ravi, if you were to have everyone here go over there, what you have us do? In what way would you have us voice our concerns and have discussions? Most of us here are adults, and have tried many avenues of support like kb has before retrieving our pitchforks, but one thing seems to remain the same. That one thing is that Starr keeps getting up and talking about how transparent and inclusive they are, while at home in the forum it is nothing but cock blocking and banning. It is pretty clear that the Devs have already selected community members they want to deal with in order to fulfil their "requirements" to consider what they are doing crowdsourcing. The rest of us have been left out in the cold. You are welcome here any time, and I wish more would come talk to us about this kind of stuff. Though I wish you guys would take off Lum's Glasses... insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/lums-glasses/ Thats a pretty large order to fill That's what she said!I will be called fanboi and other names but thats ok also. Harden up princess.I won't claim to know how you can at this point try to get back to good to go over there with named accounts at least. No, IM will never be allowed back into that Den of Terror. But a lot of us are still there, and a lot more over there will benefit from advice on how to deal with this also, because they too are afraid to speak out.I have had my share of altercations and have been banned myself. I guess what I would do is understand that real life sucks. Bro, none of us are being banned because life sucks lawl. Come on. Starr said himself, dissenters are toxic, toxic people will be banned. Their definition of dissenter is too broad and they will do anything to clutch onto what little they have over there who aren't questioning the things they do.There are always going to be those that will want the limelight. They will report you nonstop if they think you are not getting in lockstep with what they percieve is the grande scheme of things. This is another fucking unprofessional moderator problem. If we had professional mods, or at least mods who didn't take sides, then you would clearly be able to understand which little bent flower is going to click the report button everytime someone says something and you can list that person as bias and treat that report accordingly. Community management issues are at the core of our problem.The majority of my bans happened, and timelord also got banned for the same things, is the cannibalism push. It put all the self righteous people against us and they were reporting every post. posts were being deleted and such. Hell my first day on the forums I was moderated for saying "beating a dead horse". Lol, of course I got more warnings after that. Well I sucked it up though, and I learned to frame my arguments better. I realized that my tone (in words) could come across wrong and toxic. What I thought I was expressing in my head was not necessarily what people where thinking when they were reading them. How many times has Gina and some of the mods used that exact phrase in the forum "beating a dead horse" - that is called hypocrite my friend, and you shouldn't have rolled over on it because that is NOT actually why you got moderated/banned. You got moderated/banned because the mods don't like you or agree with what you have to say. You're on the shit list, and anything can and will be used against you in the court of unprofessional-ism.Same with Caliya. I think she brings up some great points, but to me, the perception came across wrong. To me she framed her argument wrong. I am not saying she was wrong though, because intentions are good, but misread and its hard to convey emotion into text. So she brings up good points and isn't wrong, but because she didn't get on her knees, beg for forgiveness before she posted her opinion, state her opinion with fluffy loving words and soothing voice, and then walk away with her tail between her legs, it came out wrong? Acting like an adult goes both ways and that means the users over there can also learn how to have a discussion in critical thought without getting frustrated.Yes Shroud has some people that will be adamantly staunch and support portalarium. I try to support what I think is right. I have been at odds with them myself. Again its not so much what you say, its how its framed and try to think of how perception is. I am not trying to lecture you at all, this is just what I understand one of the problems to be. Perception can be damned. Everyone is different and will take things in multiple different ways. Port doesn't need to ban every single person who gets into an argument over there. The biggest difference I see so far is the simple fact that the people who defend SotA use the report button and the people that don't defend SotA don't use the report button. Maybe that should change.
Another problem is the way that you react to posts. Here it doesnt matter so much. But in a controlled environment like that, with so many people from different places and different countries, and all have some monetary stake in the process, tensions are high, people are on edge, and everyone has their own Idea of how they want things to go. I don't see many people over in SotA forum spitting off swear words calling people flowers. Those bans I could understand. Mate I am going to say it just one more time; the moderators are both bias and trained by Gina/Starr to ban things that make SotA look bad. One of the things that make SotA look bad are questioning the company/game. Boom, ban.Ya I know care bare and noob and stuff like that are not offensive, at least to me, but to some they are, and they will report you. Really? Has anyone seen Themo's signature? What's that got in there? Why not reported? Oh, that's right we toxic fucks don't click that button.Most of the moderation I believe comes from people reporting others. You're not fucking wrong there bro, we're in agreement on that, all of us.I know though that some of the moderation comes from some of the moderators themselves. So instead of reacting dismissively try to see their point and then show them understand why you think their Idea is flawed. Ohhhh realllyyyyy. How long have you been around Ravi? Read these, please, because after this shit anything and everything the mods say can be totally dismissed for all time:insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/shroud-of-the-avatar-mods-smash-users/insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/portalarium-takes-no-action-against-internet-piracy/insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/shroud-of-the-avatar-forum-and-moderator-hypocrisy-summary/insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/shroud-of-the-avatar-devs-give-shoutout-to-racist-member/insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2014/09/04/shroud-of-the-avatar-forum-and-moderator-hypocrisy-part-5/insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/shroud-of-the-avatar-forum-and-moderator-hypocrisy-part-4/insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/shroud-of-the-avatar-forum-and-moderator-hypocrisy-part-3/I could go on for some time, and I doubt you'll even read these but there you are. Do you not see a long term trend and maybe, just maybe why people can't deal with them unless they are in full agreement with everything they say?Honey instead of vinegar. When the bear shits on the hive, it gets no honey. - InsaneMembrane, July 23, 2015With the Dev's, kuno and I have discussed this earlier in this thread. We both have messaged them and have had very little for response. We have shot them Ideas and tried to help. I have been very frustrated with this also. In my little world I wanted them to respond! But we are all in our own little world living in a bigger world. I also understand if Devs don't reply. Get it, totally. However, they promised us crowdsourcing and they have yet to put a framework around that for the crowd to do anything. Literally the only way to get something done is to donate money, get noticed, spam them with PMs. They have even admitted that! They are at fault for frustration of backers not being able to contribute. The devs are extremely busy, firelotus is extremely busy. How do you know that? Just because they have said it? Because the game is so fucking late? Don't be so trusting. I can believe that they are busy due to the fact that the project is off the rails and is a free for all design theory. They aren't inclusive of the community knowing what they are doing. Can't say they are busy.I know you guys don't care much for her (FireLotus) but actually she is not that bad of a person. She is human just like the rest of us. I cant even imagine the pressure she gets from jackasses like us. At one time I thought she hated me, but I stepped out of the box, and took some breaths, looked at the whole picture and then went back in. Probably because she was the community manager front person and the mods were running away under her watch. Though this is probably now more Starr's fault as we realize how things work over there. I personally hold nothing against her, she doesn't seem like an asshole at all. I've got issues with her job with the community, but again, probably Starr's area anyway.
I don't think they cock block anyone really, I think we cockblock ourselves by the way we post things. Totally not true, see above links. They(moderators & devs) are human, humans have bias, they are unprofessional humans and have even more bias.If anything I would suggest port have more community managers to handle these hard situations and actually be able to talk one on one as humans because it would solve much of this problem. A community manager that was allowed to focus on community management and professional moderators would do a world of good.Port has a communication problem and thats what I think their flaw is. In many ways.The people they select to help usually are the people that are around at the time they need help. Not true at all. They selectivly pick the people that somehow get them and the game a bit more exposure to the public and the people who donate. Not the people with the skill or actual qualifications to help out. And this goes to all fronts, promotion, asset creation, testing, so on.I have tried to help many times but to be honest I have 0 tech experience and the only thing i can really do is bug report. I have seen what happens to people who try to help out over there that don't have tech experience. You get berated by people who claim to have the tech experience that don't actually help you suggest or suggest anything themselves, then report you
But the people that I have seen helping are playing and on the forums giving good feedback, working with the community, and running events to keep the player base up and people not getting bored. I don't think it has much to do with money really, although the people with money do get the dev's ear a bit more when they have the round table meet ups and such. God damn straight they get the dev's ear. Both of them.I guess part of being in that community is you have to get along with others. You cant force your ideas on people, you have to sell your ideas to people. Its politics, presentation, timing, and being in the right spot at the right time I guess. Yeah there is a little bit of that. But it doesn't help when your posts are removed for no other reason than carebears reporting you, which we have covered above as a fact, no matter how it is worded.I don't know if this helps at all, I feel like I am rambling a bit, but it is from the heart. Portelarium is not a big bad wolf, they are a small company with a small staff trying to please everyone. Its a tall order and a hard one. But I remain confident that they will have a great product, as many others do as well. Well, thanks for coming into the waste dump of toxic assholes and at least saying what you feel I do appreciate it. But I think you tend to be a little too hard on yourself and not Portalarium. If you get banned or moderated it isn't always your fault. I hope that you can see that. I, as InsaneMembrane, have always been in your face and abrasive. The community needed it and still do, but they have just been given license to kill everything not in line with the Portalarium viewpoint which just stokes the fires even higher.
The most recent example I can think of is Caliya. She was up front, yes. She was critical, yes. She was not in agreement with the forum-norm, yes. Was she slandering? Swearing? Putting down people like Junior Moderator Mystic? No. Not only did she get moderated, but it has happened so much she has packed up and sold out. This would be much more of an issue if Portalarium had to refund money when someone left, but since they don't. NO FUCKING PROBLEMS, keep the fanboys in the forum, say nice things, and sell sell sell.My responses in green...
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 24, 2015 5:04:01 GMT
One problem with "framing an argument' is, if you don't behave as if you're a fan and add fluff around the central concern, there is no way to get along. My "like" count was over 2000 and a lot of that was when I added all kinds of things like, "Oh the scenery graphics are looking fantastic in the last release!" Bah. Some people see the game as a product you pay for (that's how I see it). When product fulfillment is lacking, that's where attitudes turn bad. Some people see the game as a way to fall at Lord British's feet as if he's the most brilliant game producer ever. Where player worship and RP isn't honored, attitudes go bad. Most these folks could care less about the game development. They simply "trust" because it's RG. Even though he's failed miserably at games and been sued, they still cling to him as some sort of god. And he milks it for all it's worth. There are other people who paid for their titles dearly, and they also behave as if you talk down to them, how dare you. They think buying a title, people should look up to them as if they are the "game creators." I think that's just nonsense. They drop their pants and shit in the toilet just like any other human being. Yes, you all should now have a graphic image in your mind of RG doing just that. In my whole life, I have never been a fanatic of any religion or person. I never hold anyone in such high esteem that I'd lick their boots. So many people at the forum really do act like that. I mean, paying $10K just to go to RG home and have a meal with him? Forget that. My opinion of people like that - why don't you have a very high self esteem? I wouldn't do it if it was Jesus Christ. So the divisions are a lot deeper than the way we frame an argument. People want to stay on their little dream clouds and when you try to show them reality, they get steaming mad. For the record, I have rarely reported anyone. The only time I have is in a thread where my post(s) got moderated and others on the opposing side didn't get knocked off for the same offense. But believe me, that Duchess probably has calloused fingers pressing that report button. Off with their heads! That's exactly how she behaves. I don't care if people like that dropped a boatload of money into the game. Personally speaking, there are a lot of people over there I don't want to "get along with." And they obviously feel the same about me. And I really don't care. It's one of the many reasons I sold my account. I'm not going to tell you you are wrong. Free spirits as yourself find it hard to work in a confined environment. The problem is not everyone thinks the same. No one is really wrong in that respect. There are so many different personalities put in a blender. I don't want to step on your toes or rude to you. You did what you had to do. Its hard with a libertarian spirit to join a community where you have to follow rules. The rules are in place for this very reason. In order to get along with everyone there has to be a common premise, and that is trying to work with each other. I know you feel like you got the short end of the stick in there but as you stated you don't want to get along with some people, and maybe thats why your here. There is nothing wrong with that, its an emotional argument but non the less a valid one. The only thing I was saying in my previous post was how to try to "get listened to" and how to make your argument palatable as some one wants to engage in conversation, not in conflict. I understand that, and that's why I don't really care to continue in the forum. It's pointless and only riles up people. But then, it's sad when all that's left in the forum is a bunch of people that nod their heads at each other and Portalarium. Makes for a terribly unbalanced community and game. I'm not really understanding your "libertarian spirit" statement. I'm not a libertarian, nor a socialist, or progressive, or conservative. All that is also nonsense to me. I'm about caring for people, regardless of their ideologies. But when their ideologies say I must "fit in," I'm going to be the one to rebel. No one puts baby in a corner.
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jul 24, 2015 5:07:49 GMT
I'm not going to tell you you are wrong. Free spirits as yourself find it hard to work in a confined environment. The problem is not everyone thinks the same. No one is really wrong in that respect. There are so many different personalities put in a blender. I don't want to step on your toes or rude to you. You did what you had to do. Its hard with a libertarian spirit to join a community where you have to follow rules. The rules are in place for this very reason. In order to get along with everyone there has to be a common premise, and that is trying to work with each other. I know you feel like you got the short end of the stick in there but as you stated you don't want to get along with some people, and maybe thats why your here. There is nothing wrong with that, its an emotional argument but non the less a valid one. The only thing I was saying in my previous post was how to try to "get listened to" and how to make your argument palatable as some one wants to engage in conversation, not in conflict. I understand that, and that's why I don't really care to continue in the forum. It's pointless and only riles up people. But then, it's sad when all that's left in the forum is a bunch of people that nod their heads at each other and Portalarium. Makes for a terribly unbalanced community and game. I'm not really understanding your "libertarian spirit" statement. I'm not a libertarian, nor a socialist, or progressive, or conservative. All that is also nonsense to me. I'm about caring for people, regardless of their ideologies. But when their ideologies say I must "fit in," I'm going to be the one to rebel. No one puts baby in a corner. Fuck I feel sorry for your husband (tic ) No one puts baby in the corner.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 24, 2015 5:18:05 GMT
As far as I can see, people that are left in the forum don't truly question Portalarium. They suck up to them. They don't really give them critical feedback, which is crucial. They dance around words and hope things go their way.
And then, there are those who try to buy their way into attention from Portalarium and when they don't get it, they throw shit fits.
As for Themo's signature, what a joke. You know they moderated me for my signature, saying it was too large? I had to delete it or Mystic threatened he would delete it for me.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 24, 2015 5:20:58 GMT
I understand that, and that's why I don't really care to continue in the forum. It's pointless and only riles up people. But then, it's sad when all that's left in the forum is a bunch of people that nod their heads at each other and Portalarium. Makes for a terribly unbalanced community and game. I'm not really understanding your "libertarian spirit" statement. I'm not a libertarian, nor a socialist, or progressive, or conservative. All that is also nonsense to me. I'm about caring for people, regardless of their ideologies. But when their ideologies say I must "fit in," I'm going to be the one to rebel. No one puts baby in a corner. Fuck I feel sorry for your husband (tic ) No one puts baby in the corner. ??
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 24, 2015 6:15:52 GMT
As far as I can see, people that are left in the forum don't truly question Portalarium. They suck up to them. They don't really give them critical feedback, which is crucial. They dance around words and hope things go their way. And then, there are those who try to buy their way into attention from Portalarium and when they don't get it, they throw shit fits. As for Themo's signature, what a joke. You know they moderated me for my signature, saying it was too large? I had to delete it or Mystic threatened he would delete it for me. That doesn't surprise me in the least. You can get away with murder there if you but support everything Port says. I love SotA, SotA is the best, you are a toxic stupid troll with a bad argument! No problem.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 24, 2015 6:46:43 GMT
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Post by Ravicus on Jul 24, 2015 22:17:10 GMT
Lots off reading there lol. I guess my summery of it all is we cannot change anyone else. We can only control what we do. If we want to conform, if we dont want to conform that is our choice. Its their choice to do what they do. Thats why I say life sucks. You cannot choose how other people feel and react. You can choose to get along, or not get along. I have a question. How long are you going to be doing this? I mean in 20 yrs are you guys still going to be hurt over portalarium? Its a long time to be angry man. I say deal with your demons and move along if there is no chance at reconciliation. If your main goal is just to sabotage people and hate on everything port, then its gonna be a long sad life for ya. I wanted to show you guys how I think its best to handle living in a confined forum life and to get your voice heard. Yes you might have to kiss some ass, yes you might have to deal with unsociable people, but if you want something bad enough you do it. Nothing you do here is gonna change anything except shorten your life and give you a coronary. If you really feel wronged, get a lawyer, shit or get off the pot and quite wasting your time, before you know it you will have wasted more than just the last 2 yrs. You guys sit and pat yourself on the backs keeping each other pumped up for what? You really are just holding each other down and chocking on negative spew. Step back and evaluate what you are doing and see what this road is going to lead you too. I suggest take the next offramp and head to a brighter horizon.
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Post by grimgryphon on Jul 25, 2015 1:55:29 GMT
I have a question. How long are you going to be doing this? For me personally, until I: 1. Get my $800 back by selling my account 2. Abuse the SotA backers until I feel they've received $800 worth of it 3. The game crashes and burns Whichever comes first. I'm betting on #3 and anything I can do to help that along is gravy as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 25, 2015 3:19:19 GMT
Lots off reading there lol. I guess my summery of it all is we cannot change anyone else. We can only control what we do. If we want to conform, if we dont want to conform that is our choice. Its their choice to do what they do. Thats why I say life sucks. You cannot choose how other people feel and react. You can choose to get along, or not get along. I have a question. How long are you going to be doing this? I mean in 20 yrs are you guys still going to be hurt over portalarium? Its a long time to be angry man. I say deal with your demons and move along if there is no chance at reconciliation. If your main goal is just to sabotage people and hate on everything port, then its gonna be a long sad life for ya. I wanted to show you guys how I think its best to handle living in a confined forum life and to get your voice heard. Yes you might have to kiss some ass, yes you might have to deal with unsociable people, but if you want something bad enough you do it. Nothing you do here is gonna change anything except shorten your life and give you a coronary. If you really feel wronged, get a lawyer, shit or get off the pot and quite wasting your time, before you know it you will have wasted more than just the last 2 yrs. You guys sit and pat yourself on the backs keeping each other pumped up for what? You really are just holding each other down and chocking on negative spew. Step back and evaluate what you are doing and see what this road is going to lead you too. I suggest take the next offramp and head to a brighter horizon. I don't want to change anyone's persona. I want to change the actual people. Replace the moderators. As for the rest of the company they can stay, but they have to stop fucking people over, do what they say and learn how to run a project. Think of me, this place and everyone here, as well as everyone else who speaks out or gives a negative review on steam as the Chaos Serpent. We in our struggle with Portalarium,the Order Serpent, attempt to bring Balance to the universe. As long as there are people around that want to talk about this stuff from any angle, I'll be here. I've got long game. Reconciliation is not our goal. Getting what we paid for and were promised is the primary goal, for many of us already that can never happen due to the piss poor way in which this was done. Hence the reason they sell out in the marketplace or other avenue. Next off-ramp to a brighter horizon? Bitch, we're in space! We were launched there during Kick start by Richard Garriott and left there to die by the rest of his team. It seems like the only way out of this road is to crash and burn on re-entry.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 25, 2015 9:38:53 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 25, 2015 19:25:05 GMT
Lots off reading there lol. I guess my summery of it all is we cannot change anyone else. We can only control what we do. If we want to conform, if we dont want to conform that is our choice. Its their choice to do what they do. Thats why I say life sucks. You cannot choose how other people feel and react. You can choose to get along, or not get along. I have a question. How long are you going to be doing this? I mean in 20 yrs are you guys still going to be hurt over portalarium? Its a long time to be angry man. I say deal with your demons and move along if there is no chance at reconciliation. If your main goal is just to sabotage people and hate on everything port, then its gonna be a long sad life for ya. I wanted to show you guys how I think its best to handle living in a confined forum life and to get your voice heard. Yes you might have to kiss some ass, yes you might have to deal with unsociable people, but if you want something bad enough you do it. Nothing you do here is gonna change anything except shorten your life and give you a coronary. If you really feel wronged, get a lawyer, shit or get off the pot and quite wasting your time, before you know it you will have wasted more than just the last 2 yrs. You guys sit and pat yourself on the backs keeping each other pumped up for what? You really are just holding each other down and chocking on negative spew. Step back and evaluate what you are doing and see what this road is going to lead you too. I suggest take the next offramp and head to a brighter horizon. "How long are you going to be doing this? I mean in 20 yrs are you guys still going to be hurt over portalarium? Its a long time to be angry man." Some of us here still have at least Ep1 that we paid for. Are you suggesting that paying customers stop griping about a game we paid for and can't get out of? Put the shoe on the other foot. What if Portalarium suddenly decided they were going to make all housing the same low price and unlimited? Just what would you do? Grumble a little, then "move on?" I know your posting style. You have been aggressive and mean spirited. You would not let it go. "You guys sit and pat yourself on the backs keeping each other pumped up for what?" I like that. You do it over at the forums. Those forums are losing active posters and is nothing more than an echo chamber for patting yourselves on the back for agreeing to take advantage of customers who didn't get in on housing, or can't afford it. Taking advantage are the key words here. You don't all sit around using those words. But it's what it's about entirely. It's just as obscene to me to watch that, as it is to you to see what we have to say. If I can illustrate how a game is designed by, and for, privileged white men that have lost touch with the demographics of the gaming crowd, then yes, I think it's worth stating my views. I mean, if people doubt this, just look who is running Portalarium and who most of the heavy investors are. What you consider negative spew is critical thinking about how Port is taking advantage of consumers. I consider it positive to forewarn people. And btw, you can silence us over at the pointy white hat Shroud forums, and think you can do it here by appealing to our "better nature," as if what you think is negative is true. It's just not.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 25, 2015 19:28:11 GMT
This is always how Ravicus responds to me at the Shroud forum, and much worse. That "little" statement is what he, and others, use to get a thread locked. Oh no. People like Rav don't hit the report button. They try to goad people into saying things to get the thread locked. He knows it. We know it. Different day, same BS.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 28, 2015 1:16:05 GMT
And he calls himself a Lich... Drop replace the L with a B and add a T
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