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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Nov 30, 2015 5:24:35 GMT
So NBNN had an interview a while back which kb ensured I didn't miss. Here are some quotes from Starr on how they deal with the Shroud of the Avatar community: "Toxic behaviour cannot be tolerated, it is damaging to the community."
"Any violation of our TOS or code of conduct is treated equally not matter what level the pledge is."
"Toxic or damaging behaviour to the community is punished, period."
"If you are doing something damaging to the community i don't care how much money you gave us, period."
"It doesn't matter how much money or how vocal or what rights someone believes they have."
"If you hurt the community you will be dealt with."
"Moderation is absolutely necessary and it is not censorship and it is not the squashing of descenting opinion and it is not eliminating critique that is never the goal of moderation."I think through my SotA Parody Blog through my opinion based on casual observations, the above is only 25% true. Points: Kill Toxic stuff for Whales: -25 Kill Toxic stuff for non-whales: +25 Moderation not used for censorship, killing opinions or eliminating critique: -50 This doesn't even take into consideration the Devs being toxic to the community themselves, like our good pal Spearsy over there in steam smacking negative reviewers around. I think I like the old Laws better. Thou shalt help those in need, or thou shalt suffer the same need.
Thou shalt not lie, or thou shalt lose thy tongue.
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171 
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Post by dodgy on Nov 30, 2015 5:32:11 GMT
When someone needs to end a statement with the word period once my eyes glaze let alone multiple times. It suggests coming from a place of weakness or lack of conviction and they need to emphasise their will to themselves.
It's a needless bluster and only those of limited capacity feel that they need to reinforce the statement. Look at politics weak ones reinforce strong do not need to.
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jackjack
Strong in the Force
Playing Fallout 1
Posts: 102
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Post by jackjack on Nov 30, 2015 7:47:48 GMT
"Any violation of our TOS or code of conduct is treated equally not matter what level the pledge is." This is an outrageous statement and bald-faced lie. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Nov 30, 2015 7:50:42 GMT
"Any violation of our TOS or code of conduct is treated equally not matter what level the pledge is." This is an outrageous statement and bald-faced lie. Exactly why I prefer the old Blackthorn! Thou shalt not lie, or thou shalt lose thy tongue.
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Post by dewderonomy on Nov 30, 2015 8:51:08 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121 
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Post by Caliya on Nov 30, 2015 16:18:07 GMT
This whole thread is very entertaining  |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Dec 2, 2015 16:43:52 GMT
I nearly forgot about these... insanemembrain.wordpress.com/2014/07/25/sota-forum-thread-about-over-moderation-gets-moderated/Forum Activity Tracker – DOWNLOADBubonic created this thread, it is a logical concern but of course it was locked down. SotA: Suppression of the Avatars Why all the Moderating – DOWNLOADTruly only a matter of time before this thread gets locked down. Bubonic upset FireLotus, FireLotus then browsed everything Bubonic posted over the short term and targeted posts and threads Bubonic contributed to, including at least one in this thread. By the way, this specific aggression of Moderators aimed towards people and then continuing them over a period of time was of course a concern by many in this thread. Well, it is here, read it as it should have been read! Also a fun fact, Bubonic yelled at a buddy of mine for contacting him about this, he was upset that I messed with his forum avatar  |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 5, 2016 4:40:56 GMT
So this is relevant again. If an ONBE winner violates a SotA pleb in the woods with a tree and Portalarium hears the sound, does the ONBE winner get a slap? Ravi created this now deleted thread on SotA forums, where he and Themo had a good old slapping fest with each other. Have to admit, it made me hard. Get the deleted slapfest in the vault: shroudunlimited.boards.net/thread/614/report-onbe-recipients-deleted |
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Post by chodekiller on Jan 5, 2016 4:47:46 GMT
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 5, 2016 5:02:43 GMT
That was my next post  |
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Post by dewderonomy on Jan 5, 2016 5:21:42 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 5, 2016 9:21:32 GMT
$20,000 ... ?? lmao Another one bites the dust |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 5, 2016 9:34:57 GMT
I never bothered to look up ONBE but that thread discussed it. I am sitting here saying, wtf? People who do something outside the game get status inside the game, and it can never be earned in-game. lmao
What kind of little empire does RG think he started? A toxic one, to say the least. Makes me all the more glad I'm not part of that type of community.
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 5, 2016 10:45:57 GMT
I never bothered to look up ONBE but that thread discussed it. I am sitting here saying, wtf? People who do something outside the game get status inside the game, and it can never be earned in-game. lmao What kind of little empire does RG think he started? A toxic one, to say the least. Makes me all the more glad I'm not part of that type of community. BUT YOU ARE! THE SHADOW COMMUNITY! |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 5, 2016 11:02:33 GMT
Where's my in-game title, a-holes? |
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 5, 2016 11:41:51 GMT
You know I kind of feel for the Lich.
He was like all of us. Everyone involved is very passionate about this game. We all went about presenting our opinions in our own way, and of course some personalities just conflict, from a place of wanting the game to be awesome in their eyes.
We all have a differing opinion on what makes a sandbox great, what made UO great, what made Ultima great. Some agree with others some dont. Its totally within reason to discuss and argue about this points. However it has come abundantly clear that SOTA needs a proper publisher, and a proper director to create the game that was "promised/envisioned/design template etc". The only thing that could remotely save this game is a third party publisher. I dont want that to happen. It means this cluster fuck of a company gets away with it. They have proven that they are out of touch, that they have no business sense, that their successes was from a different time of gaming. Clearly the publishers kept them on track or they made a game they loved that they knew where it was going. SOTA has become a loud shouting match with a select few voices being heard.
It proves KS was a last ditch (as admitted) attempt to save the company, and that very little work had actually gone into SOTA prior to the discussion to KS. I doubt they knew anything complex about unity (limitations/scripting requirements/optimisation) and just went with the low price and advertised functionality. They had no design template or clearly defined goals.
Despite my general distaste for the SOTA community I do feel alot of anger towards Darkstarr and his team. I blame Richard for just putting his name to is and invoking the UO link and the Ultima link to rope all the nostalgic players out there. Hell the warning bells should of been selective multiplayer online offline single player bla bla game play. I mean wtf is that? NO ONE FUCKING KNOWS. It was deliberate use of vague language that appealed to the hardcore Ultima player to the UO PKer and everything in between. It was never going to happen.
Its a disgrace, a huge failure and is pretty much a shining beacon highlighting the failure of KS, EA and Crowd sourcing. Any good will has been burnt and I hope they never work in the industry again.
I put 1000 bucks to this game, and I thought that was an absurd amount but I remember the great times of UO, Ultima 4-8 and I thought fuck it. How awesome will it be to be in at the ground level. I can see why richer players wanted to contribute as much as they did. Who wouldnt want to of met RG at his house and just shoot the shit. Fuck I considered dropping it just to meet such an amazing person. Never meet your heroes people! It should never of been allowed.
POTs could of been cool if it gave the "donater" the ability to plan the town but the town retain NPC control, a sort of battlepoint for sieges/flavour for the world etc instead they turned it into ownership. The money involved just ruined the game.
NEVER EVER EVER EVER TAKE DESIGN ADVICE FROM PLAYERS. - Blizzard (paraphrased)
Im sure the hundred odd people that end up playing the game will be happy though. Kind of a retirement home for LARPERS.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 5, 2016 12:49:24 GMT
Well written post dodgy! I challenge anyone to disagree. |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 5, 2016 15:24:46 GMT
Well written post dodgy ! I challenge anyone to disagree. Come at me, bro. I agree with everything dodgy said except 2 things - wanting to meet RG and POTs could have worked "right." RG WAS behind that funding model, he proved it with his sales pitch for Ultimate Collector that failed. I cannot tolerate a person like RG. I don't think UO was successful due to him. I have never had him on a pedestal of any sort. I do not agree, and will never agree with, the funding model of people owning POTs in instances like that. If they were to "work," they'd have to change the model radically. At least for me to accept it. So there. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 5, 2016 15:34:34 GMT
I think outside work and at a personal level RG would be a great guy to hang with. He's been to space and owns a russian probe on the moon! I like that kinda thing, but if the Killer of Chodes is right about one thing, he doesn't appear to be at the helm of SotA and for that reason, professionally, I am not sure if I could ever spend money on anything he produces until and after it has been released and fully reviewed in some way. And you are right, the funding model thing, really urks me, I'd never buy into that shit ever again.
I think we all agree on the POT thing. Though I still do think they could have been done correctly without the looming darkness of the online store and whales.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 5, 2016 22:08:50 GMT
A lot of games do it right, with funding with microtransactions, like LoL made almost $1 billion in microtransactions so far.
"Riot Games earned $624 million from League of Legends last year, and that was only good enough for second place on the top-ten free-to-play earnings list. In 2014, however, it's shot to number one, and is poised to be the first to break $1 billion in microtransaction revenues." Oct 24, 2014
They do not sell anything that is P2W. Of course, no one owns a house or that kind of thing. There are no rares and you can't trade. Possibly rare art, character looks that they don't make anymore.
But that concept could potentially be applied to most games. By letting millions of people play, not having a restrictive community. This has been said, in many ways, on the Shroud forums and every time it was shut down.
Anytime you start letting the game be top heavy, it's going to have some nasty attitudes towards plebs. But if everyone starts out as plebs, and work their way up to something, they earned it through reputation and hard work. Not a fat pocketbook.
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Post by dewderonomy on Jan 6, 2016 1:53:13 GMT
A lot of games do it right, with funding with microtransactions, like LoL made almost $1 billion in microtransactions so far. But MMOs have a different demographic, and therefore different expectations. In an MMO with crafting skills, you can't put costumes and clothes and different armor types in the game and then force people to buy them. That devalues the (often grind-heavy, boring, carpal tunnel inducing) skill that would normally allow the creation of those items. Plus, every special costume you put in the cash shop is one less you can make a rare or a holiday item or something else in-game. This does more than just devalue the skills and professions; it devalues the game. Eventually those things start to pile up where the game is less and less about playing, and more and more about buying. It's "easy" to get microtransactions in a game that's just costumes and skins; I've spent like $100 in PlanetSide 2, and that's a free game. But there isn't a skill that allows me to create gear that would offer me the opportunity to make that same outfit. I'm not looking at content that I could potentially make and realize it's locked behind a paywall. I'm not saying you can't utilize a cash shop in an MMO, but without holding (often cool, cash-worthy) content over your customers' heads, breaking the economy, or creating segregation between the Haves and Have-Nots, there aren't many things to put in a cash shop. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 6, 2016 1:57:22 GMT
In an MMO with crafting skills, you can't put costumes and clothes and different armor types in the game and then force people to buy them. That devalues the (often grind-heavy, boring, carpal tunnel inducing) skill that would normally allow the creation of those items. Plus, every special costume you put in the cash shop is one less you can make a rare or a holiday item or something else in-game. This does more than just devalue the skills and professions; it devalues the game. Hey, on top of that, why doesn't anyone lock dyes and customization of those paywall items behind another paywall? Oh wait.... |
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Post by dewderonomy on Jan 6, 2016 2:00:08 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 6, 2016 21:42:05 GMT
But MMOs have a different demographic, and therefore different expectations. Before LoL did what they now do, people said it wasn't possible either. I don't think it's not possible in an MMO. I think it would have to be done intelligently, but I think it could work. I both like and don't like Blake's idea of a market. I proposed that long ago in Shroud, but where the developer gets a cut because they are the middleman instead of some offsite people. I don't like the idea of a stock exchange in game, and some of them were starting one, or trying to. That kind of stuff is not really for an MMO if you asked me, at least not with a past history of Ultima and UO. It does not fit with the whole concept. |
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Post by dewderonomy on Jan 7, 2016 3:59:38 GMT
I think it would have to be done intelligently, but I think it could work. What would be some ways you think a persistent, immersive world with competitive players, guilds and factions that include diversity in skills and variety in playstyles could have an expansive cash shop without ruining balance in-game, redefining the game through meta/out-of-game purchases, or simply failing financially from lack of income? I proposed that long ago in Shroud, but where the developer gets a cut because they are the middleman instead of some offsite people. I understand this, in principle, particularly for a game in development. PlanetSide 2 has it with the Player Workshop, I think it's called, and there are people who've made thousands and thousands of dollars from it. But how does creating purchasable content for the game add to the game? Outside of something like SecondLife (which is aptly named and therefore not really a game), I can't imagine how that would benefit a game outside of submitting content for the game itself (new art patches, events/holidays, expansions) instead of putting it into a cash shop. |
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 7, 2016 4:15:04 GMT
I think it would have to be done intelligently, but I think it could work. What would be some ways you think a persistent, immersive world with competitive players, guilds and factions that include diversity in skills and variety in playstyles could have an expansive cash shop without ruining balance in-game, redefining the game through meta/out-of-game purchases, or simply failing financially from lack of income? I proposed that long ago in Shroud, but where the developer gets a cut because they are the middleman instead of some offsite people. I understand this, in principle, particularly for a game in development. PlanetSide 2 has it with the Player Workshop, I think it's called, and there are people who've made thousands and thousands of dollars from it. But how does creating purchasable content for the game add to the game? Outside of something like SecondLife (which is aptly named and therefore not really a game), I can't imagine how that would benefit a game outside of submitting content for the game itself (new art patches, events/holidays, expansions) instead of putting it into a cash shop. Its the same concept as the guys who mod EU4 or Total War. Modders are awesome, if you love doing it do it. You dont do it to make money its a way to learn your craft and fool around with coding. If you are good you get some success ie Dayz. D&D online has the foundry for player made dungeons. I think its a great idea and an amazing tool to be used but under no circumstances do you get paid for it. It invites a plethora of issues and attracts a different kind of person. |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 7, 2016 9:46:02 GMT
I think it would have to be done intelligently, but I think it could work. What would be some ways you think a persistent, immersive world with competitive players, guilds and factions that include diversity in skills and variety in playstyles could have an expansive cash shop without ruining balance in-game, redefining the game through meta/out-of-game purchases, or simply failing financially from lack of income? I proposed that long ago in Shroud, but where the developer gets a cut because they are the middleman instead of some offsite people. I understand this, in principle, particularly for a game in development. PlanetSide 2 has it with the Player Workshop, I think it's called, and there are people who've made thousands and thousands of dollars from it. But how does creating purchasable content for the game add to the game? Outside of something like SecondLife (which is aptly named and therefore not really a game), I can't imagine how that would benefit a game outside of submitting content for the game itself (new art patches, events/holidays, expansions) instead of putting it into a cash shop. Well, if I could answer some of your questions, I might be able to design a game. lol There are going to be ways to subvert a system, no matter what. But why design something into the system from the start? I understand making a game not-forbidden to make real money but who profits? It's not the game developers. Tying certain high ticket items to an account would discourage some of that kind of behavior. The fact you can't drop anything in SotA (yes I know, a big drawback), and you have to use a trade window means there is control over what can be traded and sold. Even though Runescape is a very simple browser game, the trading system is pretty good (it's done mostly through banks, not player to player). Why should an MMO become a place for stock exchanges and players making real money from other players? Those are the elements that are least attractive to younger players these days. They do not want these kinds of ties to a game. It's one of the things that made UO the least enjoyable to me. For those who made actual money off the trading, they were thrilled and they are many of the ones that SotA attracted (I'm thinking about people like Envy or Markee Dragon). The older generations that want to scalp people. That's one reason we've seen so much in-fighting among whales and nastiness towards new and low level backers. Silkroad Online was a horrid place for the Asian sweatshops. Anytime you make it so someone can make a profit from a game, you're going to draw ravenous people. I think community is important in MMOs, but unless a game is designed to invite communal interactions, it's going to flop as an MMO. They think encouraging player trades and store purchases are going to make this game have longevity? I don't agree. Content and community keep people engaged. Of course, I don't like an end boss that requires a mob to kill it. But a treasure chest, people banding together to get their share, encourages discussion and trade. Fighting a boss does not. There will always be people wanting to camp spots to get the best items and even sell them for profits. But that requires real work from a player. Not purchasing an item from a shop that anyone can purchase. Anyway, I'm sure I didn't answer the question because I'm not a developer and don't want to put the thought into the ramifications of various decisions. |
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