titsup
Strong in the Force
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Post by titsup on Feb 3, 2016 1:00:31 GMT
* after typing this out I swear I posted this exact same thing before but I don't remember getting any real responses. If this is a duplicate post I apologize. Feel free to mock my old man memory*
I may have brought this up before, but I was just curious what you guys thought. Shroud's peak concurrent users on Steam was 240. Does anyone have any idea the number of scenes they are promising?
230+ PoTs, 40 NPC towns (does this include PRTs?). That's a lot of real estate to spread your playerbase throughout.
1000 concurrent users would put them in Steam's top 80 games ATM, which I think one can say is a rather ambitious goal. Still, if you divide that userbase evenly just between the game's towns, you are looking at fewer than 5 people active per town. That's assuming no one is out adventuring in however many scenes created that aren't town related.
So I'm curious how many players do you think would be necessary to make a game with 270+ towns feel alive? Obviously players will not be evenly distributed throughout the world, but I think it's fair to use that idea as a guideline. After all, an active living world should be a living world, not a concentration of 3 or 4 spots of congregation amongst hundreds. That's especially the case when people have paid 10s of thousands to create their own space that they hope people will populate.
I presume they'll have maybe 150 scenes? Really I have no idea, so if someone has data on that itd be appreciated. If 150 is the case, plus 270, you're looking at fewer than 3 people per scene with 1000 concurrent users.
I can't see how this would bode well for PoT owners or the game's already existing issue of seeming sparsely populated.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 1:51:00 GMT
I'm not sure I would include the scenes really, sometimes when you go out into the wilderness you hope and expect it to be...wilderness  Let's just go with NPC, PR, and PO towns for this. It is hard to estimate especially given Port's seemingly open desire to decentralize every part of the population. No place feels special, yet, and I am not sure if they have a desire to make it so. I suppose we can get an answer to that when every NPC town has been completed. Even if one is special, something tells me they will be "encouraging" travel and time spent away from it for things it's local area lacks just to keep people moving, for whatever reason they seem to like that. We'll discount PvP towns also as there is no PvP population in SotA, not a real one anyway. So estimate the PvP towns as about 2% and subtract that from the POT total, add in the Player Run and NPC towns and divide it by total population. It doesn't leave you with very many possible players per town if they were evenly divided... This doesn't even take into effect one thing Port have yet to even do... Shard the server. But with population at these levels, will they need to? Things they can do... Force everyone into steam so everyone can see the stats. Don't shard the server. Create at least one nice NPC town that everyone enjoys, if they can get away with it without POT owners crying foul and taking their peeps away from them. Short answer, I'd expect to see at least 10 people per town for smallers and 20 for larger ones like Ardoris. So, increase the current concurrent population by about 8 times. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 2:02:21 GMT
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calico
Strong in the Force
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Post by calico on Feb 3, 2016 2:18:50 GMT
I guess they will have to fill the towns as at the moment they are empty.
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Post by zincturtle on Feb 3, 2016 2:45:31 GMT
After all the hype, this isn't a group/co-op game. That's not what they set out to design, and that's not what it is.
Single-player-online, friends-only-online, with those options? Not sure there's any accurate measure of concurrency.
At it's core, the best you can call SotA is a resource acquisition game. In light of that, it makes less sense to gather in multiplayer online, when you can have your own instance to yourself.
I mean, who's going to give that up?
Unless there's a 10 fold increase in difficulty, and players are forced to group to take on even simple enemies, there's nothing to drive players together.
I suppose you can argue that while in a group, XP rates are potentially higher, and you might learn something from someone else if you need to do that, possibly? It might be a carrot, but the reality of some PUGs, I think people will just stick with friends-only mode.
At least there's only going to be three main cities to try and seem 'full', at launch (final wipe).
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 2:59:31 GMT
After all the hype, this isn't a group/co-op game. That's not what they set out to design, and that's not what it is. That is quite true, this was firstly going to be available on a mobile platform also  This being the case though, why were POTs added? What does a Player run town for players by players have to do with the original sold version of this game? |
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Feb 3, 2016 3:50:05 GMT
PRTs are simply a clever name they have for instances housing. They can dump large quantities of people into them and tout them as being player controlled economies. Really what they are are a way for Port to add mass quantities of lots into areas devoid of content.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 4:12:57 GMT
PRTs are simply a clever name they have for instances housing. They can dump large quantities of people into them and tout them as being player controlled economies. Really what they are are a way for Port to add mass quantities of lots into areas devoid of content. So I am actually rather ignorant to these. I know that PRTs have a different color roof on them and that they are "run" by players and all that. But what do you mean by instanced? This game has a lot of instance flavors, instanced scenes which include NPC towns and POTs both, but the worst kind is where the POT doesn't show up on the map. In what way are the PRTs instanced, as they do show up on the map all of them, yes? |
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Feb 3, 2016 4:37:03 GMT
PRTs are simply a clever name they have for instances housing. They can dump large quantities of people into them and tout them as being player controlled economies. Really what they are are a way for Port to add mass quantities of lots into areas devoid of content. So I am actually rather ignorant to these. I know that PRTs have a different color roof on them and that they are "run" by players and all that. But what do you mean by instanced? This game has a lot of instance flavors, instanced scenes which include NPC towns and POTs both, but the worst kind is where the POT doesn't show up on the map. In what way are the PRTs instanced, as they do show up on the map all of them, yes? Instance is probably an inappropriate term. What I mean is, the PRTs are simply areas thrown on the map with no value other than to hold a home. No resources, NPCs, story elements, no reason for players to visit them other than to go to their home. They provide Port with the ability to meet their housing promises without having to provide any substance for the players. They are only cities or towns in so much as they have lots for buildings in them and they provide none of the inherent benefits of owning a home in a town. They are, in essence, player owned towns without a player owning them and with no benefits of the NPC towns, because creating NPC towns for players to have their homes in would have taken work. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what these are, but that's what I've gathered from what I've read. From my understanding, the only way in which these towns are 'run' by players is that Port isn't putting any effort into these towns, no NPCS or infrastructure. Players will 'run' these towns because there won't be any infrastructure there from NPCs to support them. 'Player Run Towns' seems then to just be a clever way to say 'House Farm' and throw in a shitload of lots without taking the time or effort to design a town. Some on the forums have suggested they believe Port will simply modify a PoT template and place lots and call it a PRT. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 4:39:58 GMT
Ok I understand what you mean now Yeah that is why I'm so not clued in on them either. I suppose I could have shut off on the whole non-NPC town thing for a while and ignored the updates about them, but there doesn't seem to be much to do with PRTs. Can you even "run" them as it suggests? Vote for a leader and direction or something in some way? Or like you imply, just lot farms. |
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Feb 3, 2016 4:43:11 GMT
Ok I understand what you mean now Yeah that is why I'm so not clued in on them either. I suppose I could have shut off on the whole non-NPC town thing for a while and ignored the updates about them, but there doesn't seem to be much to do with PRTs. Can you even "run" them as it suggests? Vote for a leader and direction or something in some way? Or like you imply, just lot farms. I don't think (I could be wrong, if someone knows, please correct me) they've said anything about players in anyway 'running' the town. I think the implication is players are 'running' that town because there are no NPCs or story elements. I think that's part of Bubonic's complaint on the forum, that even high level backers will be stuck in these sorts of housing farms. That's what I took from his statements there, though I don't want to put words in his mouth so people are free to read his comments. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 4:52:45 GMT
I think that's part of Bubonic's complaint on the forum, that even high level backers will be stuck in these sorts of housing farms. That's what I took from his statements there, though I don't want to put words in his mouth so people are free to read his comments. I think that is what I picked up from that also. I was wondering if those PRTs were going to play a much larger part in the "players take over the world" thing too, but I've seen no indication that much is happening at all with PRTs... Seriously though, if there are now 40 and possibly soon to be more added spots on the map that are just instanced vacant farm lots... That is ugly, on many levels! |
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Caliya
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People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Feb 3, 2016 14:50:34 GMT
I was wondering if those PRTs were going to play a much larger part in the "players take over the world" thing too Considering that they vastly outnumber NPC towns, I'd say they already have "taken over the world." Referring to my post in another thread, talking about how many towns would be needed for backers to place their houses - you'd need ~180 towns with ~150 lots each for the original 26,000 backers to have lots. We know that's not gonna happen. But, that's how many NPC towns and house lots they would need to accommodate that crowd alone, in order to avoid needing a POT lot. Now everyone think about that. They promised no one would be required to live in a POT. Did they tell the truth? One step further. If they do make that many NPC towns, there will be a whole lot of empty POTs, that will devalue any potential for "rare, limited" housing. Can't have it both ways people. lol |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 14:54:05 GMT
Now everyone think about that. They promised no one would be required to live in a POT. Did they tell the truth? We're gonna find out. But I have faith that they can copy/paste and change one or two things to make them all unique by land rush time. They must be done with the POTs? |
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Caliya
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People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Feb 3, 2016 14:56:10 GMT
Now everyone think about that. They promised no one would be required to live in a POT. Did they tell the truth? We're gonna find out. But I have faith that they can copy/paste and change one or two things to make them all unique by land rush time. They must be done with the POTs? If you "have faith" they will "make it right" then you also must know this means no housing will have any value whatsoever anymore. |
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dodgy
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Post by dodgy on Feb 3, 2016 14:56:22 GMT
I think you give them too much credit...
Peace is a lie IM
THERE IS ONLY PASSION
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 14:58:26 GMT
We're gonna find out. But I have faith that they can copy/paste and change one or two things to make them all unique by land rush time. They must be done with the POTs? If you "have faith" they will "make it right" then you also must know this means no housing will have any value whatsoever anymore. I'm of the opinion that ship sailed as soon as POTs hit the scene. So, however they wish to continue sailing that one; full steam ahead. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 14:59:06 GMT
Yes Darth Dodgy. Meh, the alliteration there don't not work so well. |
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dodgy
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Post by dodgy on Feb 3, 2016 15:01:41 GMT
Yes Darth Dodgy. Meh, the alliteration there don't not work so well. Rule of 2. Master and the apprentice. The master is yet to reveal himself |
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Caliya
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People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Feb 3, 2016 15:03:48 GMT
Why is it that I now feel I'm trolling a troll's forum?
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Caliya
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People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Feb 3, 2016 15:05:35 GMT
I'm of the opinion that ship sailed as soon as POTs hit the scene. So, however they wish to continue sailing that one; full steam ahead. Couldn't agree with about the POTs causing this issue. We'll see about the "full steam ahead" - at least where KS backers are concerned. I know if I were them (like Blake), I'd be feeling more than burnt. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 15:22:22 GMT
You don't think POTs caused a serious devalue to housing?
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Caliya
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People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Feb 3, 2016 15:31:59 GMT
You don't think POTs caused a serious devalue to housing? Oops, I meant to say "couldn't agree more" |
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Post by zincturtle on Feb 3, 2016 15:49:53 GMT
I think PoT owners are going to be grossly disappointed when players don't flock to their dystopia's errr, utopia's.  If Port doesn't add NPC's, crafting tables, and crafting supply (fuel supply) NPC's to PRT's, things are going to go very badly indeed. The reason is, you can't craft without fuel, and you can't (currently) make fuel from harvests, so.. you're stuck buying fuel and supplies. There is no reasonable option. EQ2 ran into this problem with their guild halls. Even after you let the guild have crafting stations, oops, what about fuel? Oh right, you designed your crafting system with an NPC fuel component, to prevent runaway exploits. Riiiiight, so now you MUST give access to that fuel vendor to permit the player to craft. Eventually, that's what Sony did. They allowed guilds to acquire the Crafting Fuel vendor and place them in the guild hall. In light of the current recipe & fuel system, and that there is pretty much an NPC per skill type required, once again, a complete lack of forethought is going to bite Port in the ass. It's not as easy as a single fuel vendor NPC, unless they've got one that has, for ALL crafting disciplines, every recipe, every tool, every fuel, and all the subcomponents (like salt, flour, etc, for baking) on a single NPC. Talk about painting yourself into a corner. Which means you have to place 6 or 8 NPC's, and either give them context (a building, a station) or just make them all stand in a circle like the lifeless robots they are. Then you add in the insane plan to limit fuel & subcomponents, and it's like they're intentionally trying to drive away customers. Yes, even today, in testing mode, some NPC's have only 1 or 2 of a subcomponent, and restock incredibly slowly, even though you can't get that subcomponent via any other mechanism. Huzzah for stupid! Design goal: Limit Bark Bread output. Mission, accomplished, gold star, underpaid designer! \o/ Fools. It's like they didn't live the past 20 years nor play any games made during that time. |
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calico
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Post by calico on Feb 3, 2016 15:58:02 GMT
I think PoT owners are going to be grossly disappointed when players don't flock to their dystopia's errr, utopia's. If Port doesn't add NPC's, crafting tables, and crafting supply (fuel supply) NPC's to PRT's, things are going to go very badly indeed. The reason is, you can't craft without fuel, and you can't (currently) make fuel from harvests, so.. you're stuck buying fuel and supplies. There is no reasonable option. EQ2 ran into this problem with their guild halls. Even after you let the guild have crafting stations, oops, what about fuel? Oh right, you designed your crafting system with an NPC fuel component, to prevent runaway exploits. Riiiiight, so now you MUST give access to that fuel vendor to permit the player to craft. Eventually, that's what Sony did. They allowed guilds to acquire the Crafting Fuel vendor and place them in the guild hall. In light of the current recipe & fuel system, and that there is pretty much an NPC per skill type required, once again, a complete lack of forethought is going to bite Port in the ass. It's not as easy as a single fuel vendor NPC, unless they've got one that has, for ALL crafting disciplines, every recipe, every tool, every fuel, and all the subcomponents (like salt, flour, etc, for baking) on a single NPC. Talk about painting yourself into a corner. Which means you have to place 6 or 8 NPC's, and either give them context (a building, a station) or just make them all stand in a circle like the lifeless robots they are. Then you add in the insane plan to limit fuel & subcomponents, and it's like they're intentionally trying to drive away customers. Yes, even today, in testing mode, some NPC's have only 1 or 2 of a subcomponent, and restock incredibly slowly, even though you can't get that subcomponent via any other mechanism. Huzzah for stupid! Design goal: Limit Bark Bread output. Mission, accomplished, gold star, underpaid designer! \o/ Fools. It's like they didn't live the past 20 years nor play any games made during that time. What's going to happen is this on July 28th. High level backers will take all the prime locations in all the NPC cities even if they own PoT's. They will then wait until after the landrush, then sell them for either real world cash or in game currency. They will then tak that money to invest in themselves and the PoT's. Level playing field. |
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 3, 2016 16:05:38 GMT
I think there should be a grass roots movement and a gentleman's agreement not to purchase lots/houses/anything which has been obviously squatted by high level backers.
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Post by dewderonomy on Feb 4, 2016 2:39:11 GMT
Fools. It's like they didn't live the past 20 years nor play any games made during that time. Neither did their playerbase, so it's okay. |
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calico
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Post by calico on Feb 4, 2016 2:41:27 GMT
Even with the "live" player base it feels like a bunch of weirdos.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 4, 2016 3:18:51 GMT
Even with the "live" player base it feels like a bunch of weirdos.  |
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dodgy
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Post by dodgy on Feb 4, 2016 5:48:16 GMT
Even with the "live" player base it feels like a bunch of weirdos. That pretty much sums up the game |
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This being the case though, why were POTs added? What does a Player run town for players by players have to do with the original sold version of this game?
