Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 27, 2016 21:44:31 GMT
People defending RG has a long history, because if you don't turn a blind eye to what he actually has done in the industry, you will see it was riddled with problems for more than a decade. People still refused to believe that the Fel/Trammel split happened with RGs blessing. Starr has spoken to that issue, as well as others involved, that it was a problem because they were literally losing customers before the split. Now, it was already a niche game but that would've made it about as niche as could be. And of course we saw many people make their own retro servers. I'm not arguing the point that it should or shouldn't have been split into 2 worlds. But when people think that poor RG was bullied by people like SL and others, that's utter nonsense. RG doesn't code. Did anyone who invested in SotA think he did? Did everyone know some of his ideas would be overridden because they are not possible? Of course. All of us knew those things and still invested. And here we have again, people saying he's the innocent one and blaming SL, Dallas and others. That's just nonsense. RG has a huge stake in the company. He could replace people. "His current project is Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues where his primary role is as CEO and Creative Director." He is the freaking owner, CEO and director. Would he keep the current staff if they were all opposing him? To think otherwise is pure foolishness. The funding model comes from the CEO of a company. It does not come from the grunts. The game might have had a chance if the funding model was much different. Lay the blame where it squarely belongs. The CEO. He used to code....when his games were good. I think he got away from that around ultima 6.... I think Star is the reason the game is the way it is now, he was the one with the most MMO background. What skills did it take to code a game, from those years (not any 3d games back then)? He couldn't code today unless he kept up with the industry. RG hired SL because he could do what RG wanted, but not the impossible. As far as the Ultima series being "good," you can see what generations it usually appealed to: children. I'm not saying that's bad. I'm just saying, not too many adults were drawn to the Ultima series, but were drawn to UO because it was a sandbox. I can't fault SL, nor Chris Spears. They were hired for their "talents." If RG didn't want their particular talents, he could've found others to do what you all think should've been done. If I owned a company, and was the CEO, you better believe I'd be hiring those who could do what I was unable. RG is no different.
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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Post by calico on Jan 27, 2016 22:31:19 GMT
He used to code....when his games were good. I think he got away from that around ultima 6.... I think Star is the reason the game is the way it is now, he was the one with the most MMO background. What skills did it take to code a game, from those years (not any 3d games back then)? He couldn't code today unless he kept up with the industry. RG hired SL because he could do what RG wanted, but not the impossible. As far as the Ultima series being "good," you can see what generations it usually appealed to: children. I'm not saying that's bad. I'm just saying, not too many adults were drawn to the Ultima series, but were drawn to UO because it was a sandbox. I can't fault SL, nor Chris Spears. They were hired for their "talents." If RG didn't want their particular talents, he could've found others to do what you all think should've been done. If I owned a company, and was the CEO, you better believe I'd be hiring those who could do what I was unable. RG is no different. I guess I Will just have to disagree here, ultima was not geared toward "children", matter of fact it had quite a few very adult situations in Ultima 7 for instance starts with a murder where a body is dismembered and sitting in a pool of blood. I think you may be a bit out of touch with the main series beyond Ultima Online. It's funny how UO fans like starlong, I can't stand him. It took a lot of skills back then to code, as it was totally new. Now, granted he doesn't have the skills of today for sure.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 27, 2016 23:14:53 GMT
I don't know Starr Long except one thing, that is he lies all the time, is caught in lies. And when someone (Joviex) called him on it, he got permabanned. That is totally not ok. Not with a mature minded and intelligent person like Joviex. I never saw him go off on anyone in the forums, and he contributed to the game a lot. His ban was completely unwarranted, and I do blame SL for that.
As for SL's work, I really don't know if it's good or not. I only know that management is making the decisions on what can be designed, with the money and time they have.
Game software design and programming is a very difficult industry, even for the best of them.
I did not say that the Ultima series was geared towards children. I am aware it contained very adult themes. I said "usually appealed to: children"
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 27, 2016 23:48:32 GMT
Before IM took me down a peg I brought up Peter Molyneux. He is the bloke behind fable and other shit. He too was a legend in the day but like RG his head was off in the clouds. As a result he ended up in a world of shit over the EA of Godus. His reputation in tatters he was suffering depression someone had to step in to right the ship. That article is all about that somebody. It's interesting because it a lot aligns to SOTA. I think it's worth a read.
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Post by dewderonomy on Jan 28, 2016 0:23:16 GMT
That's $955 more than I would've paid. A thousand's still a shit ton. As far as the Ultima series being "good," you can see what generations it usually appealed to: children. U6 dealt with racism. U7 dealt with religion and authoritative/"folk community" control. U8 started with a guy getting his head chopped off. All had sex, and you could murder people and steal willingly. You also dealt with those consequences as punishments, like, not being able to beat the actual game. I don't think they were even remotely designed for children.
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titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
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Post by titsup on Jan 28, 2016 0:31:47 GMT
What skills did it take to code a game, from those years (not any 3d games back then)? He couldn't code today unless he kept up with the industry. RG hired SL because he could do what RG wanted, but not the impossible. As far as the Ultima series being "good," you can see what generations it usually appealed to: children. I'm not saying that's bad. I'm just saying, not too many adults were drawn to the Ultima series, but were drawn to UO because it was a sandbox. I can't fault SL, nor Chris Spears. They were hired for their "talents." If RG didn't want their particular talents, he could've found others to do what you all think should've been done. If I owned a company, and was the CEO, you better believe I'd be hiring those who could do what I was unable. RG is no different. I guess I Will just have to disagree here, ultima was not geared toward "children", matter of fact it had quite a few very adult situations in Ultima 7 for instance starts with a murder where a body is dismembered and sitting in a pool of blood. I think you may be a bit out of touch with the main series beyond Ultima Online. It's funny how UO fans like starlong, I can't stand him. It took a lot of skills back then to code, as it was totally new. Now, granted he doesn't have the skills of today for sure. UO fans tend to have some devotion to Starr because he was represented in the game as Blackthorn. He was never a designer. He worked in QA before becoming a producer and ultimately wound up as a VP at Disney. Any skills he had were on the production side, not in design. Loving RG or SL for UO is to be ignorant of the fact that the game was actually designed by Raph Koster (aka Designer Dragon). They were one produced and the other directed the project. influential positions to be sure, after all Garriott hired Koster. Ultima IX, which everyone agrees was a cocked up mess is never attributed to them despite Starr being an associate producer and RG being director.
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 28, 2016 0:37:22 GMT
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 28, 2016 2:45:34 GMT
Same response I got from Support a day or two ago. Not a surprise.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 28, 2016 7:57:13 GMT
Guys, chat here is fine on this topic. I'd rather not have it spill out to other SotA related sites however. I accept the penalties for my actions in this case as I have said already. I never expected to lambaste members of the community and Portalarium both and "get away" with it. Whether or not I've broken any Terms to the letter or not, this is the world we live in today
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Post by nemolives on Jan 28, 2016 11:38:08 GMT
Guys, chat here is fine on this topic. I'd rather not have it spill out to other SotA related sites however. I accept the penalties for my actions in this case as I have said already. I never expected to lambaste members of the community and Portalarium both and "get away" with it. Whether or not I've broken any Terms to the letter or not, this is the world we live in today Trying to be fair is fine; but this is the tactical mistakes I was talking about... Portalarium must be shockingly naive to think that they weren't going to get a much wider push back from people associated with, or who just have seen what happened to you, so not having a cast iron case that they could point too as to why they banned you is ridiculous. I know the gaming industry as a whole tends to be insular and secretive, but this is a habit that is incredibly self destructive. And it's one that the alternative too isn't untested either; when companies have gone all in to explain tackling toxic or harassing behaviour, the community as a whole has welcomed it. Today, they even involve the community directly; witness League of Legends or CS:GO's player judged sanctions. Maybe they don't want to bring up their own failures or issues as well as directing traffic here whilst trying to fix the game; I've just seen the release 26 notes, and they do seem to be picking up on some of the criticisms I've expressed; difficulty awareness is in now at least, something I've talked about on the forums a year ago and in my videos recently. Massive combat tweaks are there, as is some more of the quest line. So why do I instantly sneer and think "so what?"; it's because of what the R26 notes actually say; They just don't seem to understand that throwing praise on those guys is the main problem. They aren't the only people offering feedback; hell, those people are directly responsible for demanding special support and directing the store into ever more vanity purchases so they can feel superior over everyone else. The game's reputation is awful because of giving in to that. And then, editorial feedback on a post that praises them as a group?! Yet Portalarium is amazed that everyone outside that group feels ignored, exploited and second class. And then those people hear that someone whose main sin appears to be naming forum accounts who seem to be getting that special treatment is stealth banned without even the decency to tell him he has been.... and they don't understand why that's a spectacularly inept move to make. You're supposed to be a crowd funded, crowd supported company Portalarium. Acknowledge everyone within the crowd. Make a game for everyone. Deal with everyone openly and fairly. Be worthy of the respect of everyone, even if everyone isn't welcome in your game.
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 28, 2016 11:46:34 GMT
Guys, chat here is fine on this topic. I'd rather not have it spill out to other SotA related sites however. I accept the penalties for my actions in this case as I have said already. I never expected to lambaste members of the community and Portalarium both and "get away" with it. Whether or not I've broken any Terms to the letter or not, this is the world we live in today Trying to be fair is fine; but this is the tactical mistakes I was talking about... Portalarium must be shockingly naive to think that they weren't going to get a much wider push back from people associated with, or who just have seen what happened to you, so not having a cast iron case that they could point too as to why they banned you is ridiculous. I know the gaming industry as a whole tends to be insular and secretive, but this is a habit that is incredibly self destructive. And it's one that the alternative too isn't untested either; when companies have gone all in to explain tackling toxic or harassing behaviour, the community as a whole has welcomed it. Today, they even involve the community directly; witness League of Legends or CS:GO's player judged sanctions. Maybe they don't want to bring up their own failures or issues as well as directing traffic here whilst trying to fix the game; I've just seen the release 26 notes, and they do seem to be picking up on some of the criticisms I've expressed; difficulty awareness is in now at least, something I've talked about on the forums a year ago and in my videos recently. Massive combat tweaks are there, as is some more of the quest line. So why do I instantly sneer and think "so what?"; it's because of what the R26 notes actually say; They just don't seem to understand that throwing praise on those guys is the main problem. They aren't the only people offering feedback; hell, those people are directly responsible for demanding special support and directing the store into ever more vanity purchases so they can feel superior over everyone else. The game's reputation is awful because of giving in to that. And then, editorial feedback on a post that praises them as a group?! Yet Portalarium is amazed that everyone outside that group feels ignored, exploited and second class. And then those people hear that someone whose main sin appears to be naming forum accounts who seem to be getting that special treatment is stealth banned without even the decency to tell him he has been.... and they don't understand why that's a spectacularly inept move to make. You're supposed to be a crowd funded, crowd supported company Portalarium. Acknowledge everyone within the crowd. Make a game for everyone. Deal with everyone openly and fairly. Be worthy of the respect of everyone, even if everyone isn't welcome in your game. AMEN BROTHER
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 28, 2016 11:57:13 GMT
I've just seen the release 26 notes I was laughing at the outrageous megalist of all the things to do with POTs.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 29, 2016 15:04:32 GMT
If i was them id invite him back. I would accept! I would not accept! Thanks for sharing your thoughts Bow Vale. /matawelcome
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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Post by calico on Jan 29, 2016 17:29:31 GMT
I would not accept! Precisely, and that should speak volumes for their funding model and your values and purpose of this blog. What will they do when no one wants to play servant to these people?
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Post by fossil on Jan 29, 2016 17:54:48 GMT
Precisely, and that should speak volumes for their funding model and your values and purpose of this blog. What will they do when no one wants to play servant to these people? Possibly, maybe reality will set in at that point?
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 29, 2016 20:54:07 GMT
welcome to the forum @bowvale
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 29, 2016 22:50:40 GMT
Should we storm the bastille and form a great republic that listens to all of the estates?
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 30, 2016 0:47:27 GMT
Should we storm the bastille and form a great republic that listens to all of the estates? To everyone, despite the level or lack of an estate!
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 30, 2016 1:51:41 GMT
Thank you Caliya...I was lurking here when u first came...must have been a while as you have 1700+ posts! Ya, just ask the guys. I blather on a lot. lol
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Post by dewderonomy on Jan 30, 2016 2:22:52 GMT
Ya, just ask the guys. I blather on a lot. lol
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jan 30, 2016 10:29:43 GMT
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jan 30, 2016 12:23:10 GMT
Holy fuck, I can hear the thoughts in my head... Its so...ARGHHHHH CAAAAAL TALK DAMMIT
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 11, 2016 2:05:35 GMT
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 11, 2016 2:06:37 GMT
What they mean by that is posting screen shots from their members(banned me for that once before also) and releasing Dev+ info. Though I have released less Dev+ info than most people over there, that is for certain.
Nothing to do with the dox.
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Post by fossil on Feb 11, 2016 2:29:35 GMT
A hate website? so forums are now considered hate?
Fuck me what world did I grow up in?
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