Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Travel
Feb 8, 2016 21:04:58 GMT
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 21:04:58 GMT
fast vs. no fast travel debateDrocis said this: lmao is that troll bait or is he for real? Is he really that much of an old fart that doesn't even know what Facebook is? lmao
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Travel
Feb 8, 2016 21:14:29 GMT
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 21:14:29 GMT
fast vs. no fast travel debateDrocis said this: lmao is that troll bait or is he for real? Is he really that much of an old fart that doesn't even know what Facebook is? lmao I'm of the belief that the fast travel system that is labeled in that thread is to broad, however I believe there should be some ways.
|
|
|
Post by khael on Feb 8, 2016 21:28:38 GMT
Give it a year after release and people be beggin for more fast travel just like in every other game. whther they like it or not theyll have to give in and give more fast travel. U can only go to the same damn places so much til you get sick of the loadin screens and same scenery.
Something along the road has caught your attention.... Yah, 2 more fucking loading screens!
Really need to get a clip of that loading screen and add that to it lol
|
|
|
Post by zincturtle on Feb 8, 2016 21:42:46 GMT
If they permit fast travel to friends, then it's all over. AC2 had buff bots and teleport bots in game, prior to launch, and for the first 6 months after launch. These naive fools on the official forums don't think the first large economic dominance guild won't have a full time "teleport friend" in every major city, standing in a guild lot, with the bank in sight, 24x7? Of course they will. Inconvenient mechanics like this only punish the casual/new players. Anyone with half a brain and more than 5 years in MMO's will simply use legitimate means to completely bypass them. And even if they don't permit fast travel to friends, if they permit SPO players to take goods from one economic region to another, then... it's still all over, it's just a bit slower. hee hee.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 21:57:51 GMT
The only people that a regional economy helps are the POT owners. It comes down to POT owner (whales) vs paupers. If POT owners always get what they want, there won't be any paupers left to buy their goods anyway.
There's one other faction: people who can't let go of the past, who only played (or enjoyed) Single player games, who want the long & laborious travel that was from the 1990s. For a sense of nostalgia.
The problem with that is, it makes the game so utterly niche, it won't be able to generate enough revenue to continue.
Wanting regional economies and no fast travel is self centered "me and mine" and fuck if the game is wildly successful for a larger audience.
|
|
|
Travel
Feb 8, 2016 22:00:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by fossil on Feb 8, 2016 22:00:23 GMT
If they permit fast travel to friends, then it's all over. AC2 had buff bots and teleport bots in game, prior to launch, and for the first 6 months after launch. These naive fools on the official forums don't think the first large economic dominance guild won't have a full time "teleport friend" in every major city, standing in a guild lot, with the bank in sight, 24x7? Of course they will. Inconvenient mechanics like this only punish the casual/new players. Anyone with half a brain and more than 5 years in MMO's will simply use legitimate means to completely bypass them. And even if they don't permit fast travel to friends, if they permit SPO players to take goods from one economic region to another, then... it's still all over, it's just a bit slower. hee hee. Everquest had Tbots as well.
|
|
|
Travel
Feb 8, 2016 22:01:17 GMT
via mobile
Caliya likes this
Post by fossil on Feb 8, 2016 22:01:17 GMT
What economy? You need demand for this so called eco thingy.
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Travel
Feb 8, 2016 22:01:22 GMT
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 22:01:22 GMT
You make it all a telelport fest and it will no longer be an RPG.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 22:04:28 GMT
You make it all a telelport fest and it will no longer be an RPG. Naw, we teleported all over the place in UO and it was definitely an RPG.
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 22:46:24 GMT
You make it all a telelport fest and it will no longer be an RPG. Naw, we teleported all over the place in UO and it was definitely an RPG. That is totally debatable.
|
|
|
Travel
Feb 8, 2016 23:00:49 GMT
Post by fossil on Feb 8, 2016 23:00:49 GMT
Debate away, there is no moderation here cept that Burton Leon "Burt" Reynolds guy...
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Travel
Feb 8, 2016 23:05:46 GMT
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 23:05:46 GMT
Naw, we teleported all over the place in UO and it was definitely an RPG. That is totally debatable. Sure, everything's debatable. =) Care to say why you don't think UO was an RPG? And no, that question isn't troll bait. =)
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 23:09:52 GMT
That is totally debatable. Sure, everything's debatable. =) Care to say why you don't think UO was an RPG? And no, that question isn't troll bait. =) Well, I think it was a social rpg in that player made their on role playing game...which was a social experiment at the time. The quest system left much to be desired as well as NPC's were incredibly weak. It was the opposite of what Ultima was to me, which was as origin stated "we create worlds" where as UO was the players create worlds. If you wanted that, I guess it was for you...however if you were not a fan of fan fiction and other stuff along those lines you yearned for a real ultima sequel. So in some ways unfortunately for UO I hold it responsible for the final song for Ultima.
|
|
dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
|
Post by dodgy on Feb 8, 2016 23:47:57 GMT
Sure, everything's debatable. =) Care to say why you don't think UO was an RPG? And no, that question isn't troll bait. =) Well, I think it was a social rpg in that player made their on role playing game...which was a social experiment at the time. The quest system left much to be desired as well as NPC's were incredibly weak. It was the opposite of what Ultima was to me, which was as origin stated "we create worlds" where as UO was the players create worlds. If you wanted that, I guess it was for you...however if you were not a fan of fan fiction and other stuff along those lines you yearned for a real ultima sequel. So in some ways unfortunately for UO I hold it responsible for the final song for Ultima. You are firmly in one of the camps cal described. You don't like social games that's cool. Stick to them. Single player RPGS have a totally different set of priorities to a muliplayer RPG. I enjoy social aspect of games a lot more then single. I like playing with my friends. I must admit I have turned off MMOS due to them not looking after social aspect and game play. Ultima 7 had fast travel too. I'm sure there were moongates. Hell didn't U4 have moongates? That's a former of fast travel What are your thoughts on Dark Souls calico?
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 0:10:55 GMT
Post by Caliya on Feb 9, 2016 0:10:55 GMT
Sure, everything's debatable. =) Care to say why you don't think UO was an RPG? And no, that question isn't troll bait. =) Well, I think it was a social rpg in that player made their on role playing game...which was a social experiment at the time. The quest system left much to be desired as well as NPC's were incredibly weak. It was the opposite of what Ultima was to me, which was as origin stated "we create worlds" where as UO was the players create worlds. If you wanted that, I guess it was for you...however if you were not a fan of fan fiction and other stuff along those lines you yearned for a real ultima sequel. So in some ways unfortunately for UO I hold it responsible for the final song for Ultima. Agreed, there was no real quest system. And I can understand liking fan fiction, because I have been a fan in some SP games, just never Ultima. You're right, players were the RPG (or not). You could choose to join a RP guild or not. I tried out everything. I guess the main RP that was fun, in the beginning, was either going after PKs or being a PK and being chased. There were some reputable PKs and disreputable ones. You made a name for yourself and carried that persona, even if you weren't RP. So from that standpoint, it was an RPG. But the NPCs had no storylines, there were no quests, and so on. Some people really hate the social aspect of MMOs - and there have been some MMOs that I've totally been turned off by (WoW, EQ, Guildwars, to name a few). And all those MMOs had storylines and tons of quests. So I guess, sometimes things are interesting, sometimes not, depending on one's personality. But the one thing UO did have was teleportation and moongates, not unlike the Ultima games like dodgy mentioned. There was a thriving economy, and a lot of scamming too.
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Post by calico on Feb 9, 2016 0:32:44 GMT
Well, I think it was a social rpg in that player made their on role playing game...which was a social experiment at the time. The quest system left much to be desired as well as NPC's were incredibly weak. It was the opposite of what Ultima was to me, which was as origin stated "we create worlds" where as UO was the players create worlds. If you wanted that, I guess it was for you...however if you were not a fan of fan fiction and other stuff along those lines you yearned for a real ultima sequel. So in some ways unfortunately for UO I hold it responsible for the final song for Ultima. You are firmly in one of the camps cal described. You don't like social games that's cool. Stick to them. Single player RPGS have a totally different set of priorities to a muliplayer RPG. I enjoy social aspect of games a lot more then single. I like playing with my friends. I must admit I have turned off MMOS due to them not looking after social aspect and game play. Ultima 7 had fast travel too. I'm sure there were moongates. Hell didn't U4 have moongates? That's a former of fast travel What are your thoughts on Dark Souls calico? Dark Souls is fun:) But frustrating as hell. Don't get me wrong, UO was good for different reasons, and if it didn't share the ultima name I would be a lot more forgiving with what it did. To be fair shrouds is going to have moon gates as well. I'm not against fast travel, but you shouldn't log in and go I have to go somewhere and pop up the rune required to go where you need. That won't keep people engaged, they will burn through any content there is(not there is nearly enough as it is) at a high speed as there is no challenge. People aren't seeing that half these jokers have like 3 or 4 alts which they will use to game the system that's why I'm a bit against friend summon...although if they added say a 24 hour cool down?
|
|
dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 1:30:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by dodgy on Feb 9, 2016 1:30:17 GMT
You are firmly in one of the camps cal described. You don't like social games that's cool. Stick to them. Single player RPGS have a totally different set of priorities to a muliplayer RPG. I enjoy social aspect of games a lot more then single. I like playing with my friends. I must admit I have turned off MMOS due to them not looking after social aspect and game play. Ultima 7 had fast travel too. I'm sure there were moongates. Hell didn't U4 have moongates? That's a former of fast travel What are your thoughts on Dark Souls calico? Dark Souls is fun:) But frustrating as hell. Don't get me wrong, UO was good for different reasons, and if it didn't share the ultima name I would be a lot more forgiving with what it did. To be fair shrouds is going to have moon gates as well. I'm not against fast travel, but you shouldn't log in and go I have to go somewhere and pop up the rune required to go where you need. That won't keep people engaged, they will burn through any content there is(not there is nearly enough as it is) at a high speed as there is no challenge. People aren't seeing that half these jokers have like 3 or 4 alts which they will use to game the system that's why I'm a bit against friend summon...although if they added say a 24 hour cool down? Sweet thanks for the clarification . Loved Dark Souls. Personally I would love an mmo that is brutal as dark souls. Dark souls with better social I suppose .
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 1:54:57 GMT
Post by calico on Feb 9, 2016 1:54:57 GMT
Dark Souls is fun:) But frustrating as hell. Don't get me wrong, UO was good for different reasons, and if it didn't share the ultima name I would be a lot more forgiving with what it did. To be fair shrouds is going to have moon gates as well. I'm not against fast travel, but you shouldn't log in and go I have to go somewhere and pop up the rune required to go where you need. That won't keep people engaged, they will burn through any content there is(not there is nearly enough as it is) at a high speed as there is no challenge. People aren't seeing that half these jokers have like 3 or 4 alts which they will use to game the system that's why I'm a bit against friend summon...although if they added say a 24 hour cool down? Sweet thanks for the clarification . Loved Dark Souls. Personally I would love an mmo that is brutal as dark souls. Dark souls with better social I suppose . I'm weird in I like a lot of different games...playing xcom 2 right now for instance.
|
|
|
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 2:35:58 GMT
Ultima Online was a failure before it was a success. They got lucky. The game world failed to work properly due to many issues, some understandable as it was early days and it was trying a few new things with server/client tech for games. Some was clear oversight by the developers. If it were not for the players in UO taking over by doing their own thing, it would have failed pretty hard.
As for travel, I'm a fan of fast travel systems that are built into the game lore. No bullshit /zone, ever. Its fucking stupid. Might as well all be playing as god admins and say fuck it, what game? /zone player - /give self 20 beer - /give self chair - /create fire pos 1,-1 - /win
|
|
|
Post by dewderonomy on Feb 9, 2016 3:16:54 GMT
If it were not for the players in UO taking over by doing their own thing, it would have failed pretty hard. This. But, players did take over because they could. It was encouraged, for a time. So, if it was designed with the idea for players to "do their own thing", would it not be considered a success? Disclaimer: UO was a shitty fucking game, buggy, exploitable, imbalanced and with broken systems all over the place. But point to a better sandbox. As for travel, I'm a fan of fast travel systems that are built into the game lore. I don't particular care about magic/lore 'cause it's always bullshit anyway. Recalling and gating on UO could have been curbed a bit to encourage traveling back to town, avoiding highwaymen and such, but access to fast travel is important. It just needs moderation, as most things.
|
|
|
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 3:33:38 GMT
I don't particular care about magic/lore 'cause it's always bullshit anyway. Recalling and gating on UO could have been curbed a bit to encourage traveling back to town, avoiding highwaymen and such, but access to fast travel is important. It just needs moderation, as most things. I was thinking more about Moongates based on phases of the Moons. That was a creative fast travel The Dark Path also in UVII part 2 was unique.
|
|
dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 3:47:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by dodgy on Feb 9, 2016 3:47:25 GMT
I like how Albion has fast travel that is through a dungeon. So it's an adventure going on your short cut.
Kind of like the ways in wheel of time. It's a great idea that has not been explored
|
|
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 3:58:27 GMT
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 3:58:27 GMT
I like how Albion has fast travel that is through a dungeon. So it's an adventure going on your short cut. Kind of like the ways in wheel of time. It's a great idea that has not been explored Minecraft does something similar with the Nether(hell) dimension. You travel 4x faster. So if you move 100 blocks in the Nether and transition back through a gate to Earth you have moved 400 blocks in that direction. Though almost nobody uses it for this reason.
|
|
|
Post by warderdragon on Feb 9, 2016 10:23:41 GMT
Well, it's often used that way on servers, as ways to travel to other peoples' bases.
Anyway, I only really played UO on private servers (read: Ultima Legacy, with later brief stints on Khaeros and Dark Age), so I can't really talk about how things developed on OSI. What I do know is that from a world builder's and quest maker's perspective, fast travel was a nightmare. Nothing ever felt remote or secluded when there were ways to get to any place on the map within five minutes. I did like the way Dark Souls handled it, though. Huge game world, made more accessible by unlocking shortcuts as you progressed. True fast travel was only unlocked towards the very end, or through limited supply consumable items that only took you back to the last bonfire you rested at.
|
|
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 11:39:52 GMT
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 11:39:52 GMT
Well, it's often used that way on servers, as ways to travel to other peoples' bases. Sounds like a good server then. Most of the places I've played, if they don't have insta-teleport plugins, they don't last very long as the player base these days think spending 5 mins running 2k blocks is too troublesome.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 12:00:24 GMT
Post by Caliya on Feb 9, 2016 12:00:24 GMT
I was thinking more about Moongates based on phases of the Moons. That was a creative fast travel The idea may have been creative, but in application, not so much. It was boring as hell to wait for the right moon cycle, and the reason they scrapped it altogether. (Edit: *moon cycles in UO's moongates)
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 12:04:10 GMT
Post by Caliya on Feb 9, 2016 12:04:10 GMT
I'm all for areas being locked to fast travel until a person actually navigates there. But it didn't ruin games like Skyrim or Oblivion. It made them less tedious. I don't see the sense in zoning to a specific player, but I do see the sense in being able to get to one's own house quickly. It would only be a matter of time that the level of frustration to reach one's secluded house (or those instanced POTs) would make them cry for a faster way.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Feb 9, 2016 13:23:36 GMT
Probably, for those of us who played UO for quite a number of years, often like fast travel: A single player game is played for maybe 40-80 hours. Of course it's tolerable to have slow travel and realism when you don't have to do such a repetitive task day after day, and even year after year.
I doubt they'd do it, but if SP offline wanted no fast travel, they should be able to turn off such a feature. But for an MMO, it makes no sense whatsoever to have slow and traditional modes of travel. It really would be a serious form of frustration to long-time players.
For those not wanting fast travel, I don't understand why they would object to everyone not having the ability. If you don't want to use a certain ability, then don't use it. But don't make it not possible for everyone just because some don't want it at all.
As for Drocis' argument about "regional economy," there is no basis for what he says. It's pure speculation.
|
|
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 14:07:41 GMT
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 14:07:41 GMT
I was thinking more about Moongates based on phases of the Moons. That was a creative fast travel The idea may have been creative, but in application, not so much. It was boring as hell to wait for the right moon cycle, and the reason they scrapped it altogether. (Edit: *moon cycles in UO's moongates) Yes I can understand why they had to scrap it for the dribbling masses of MMO players. But in my SP games I'm going to want some depth, and they provided it. Even getting shocked and tossed 10m back on your ass in U7 because the blackrock generators were fucking with the Ether. Loved it.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Travel
Feb 9, 2016 14:14:57 GMT
Post by Caliya on Feb 9, 2016 14:14:57 GMT
for the dribbling masses of MMO players Yes, that's me I'm going to want some depth Then don't use fast travel? I mean, let's say someone hates mages. Should they not make mages for the game? Or should you just not play a mage?
|
|