|
Post by khael on Jan 20, 2016 18:08:04 GMT
www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-all-content-available-in-offline-mode.43943/#post-489643"After reading about how negatively many backers (and external folks as well) view our Pledge structure and Add On Store we thought a powerful gesture would be to make ALL content available in Offline mode including ALL add on store items and pledge rewards."People arent ignorin the game because they wouldnt have this stuff in offline mode. Theyre giving bad feedback because the game sucks and people that talk bad about the pledges and add on store arent complainin because they wont get that stuff...they see it as an overpriced money grab not worth the money for such a shoddy game.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 20, 2016 21:10:59 GMT
we thought a powerful gesture You beat me to the punch in posting a reaction to that email. Powerful gesture? How is this powerful? In what way would Dev+ backers possibly be hit the hardest with such a gesture? lol Maybe players would rather play offline than the MMO and not give the Dev+ backers rent? I mean, what? Just more nonsense about how out of touch the dev team is.
|
|
|
Post by nemolives on Jan 20, 2016 21:23:06 GMT
www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-all-content-available-in-offline-mode.43943/#post-489643"After reading about how negatively many backers (and external folks as well) view our Pledge structure and Add On Store we thought a powerful gesture would be to make ALL content available in Offline mode including ALL add on store items and pledge rewards."People arent ignorin the game because they wouldnt have this stuff in offline mode. Theyre giving bad feedback because the game sucks and people that talk bad about the pledges and add on store arent complainin because they wont get that stuff...they see it as an overpriced money grab not worth the money for such a shoddy game. Whilst I agree that the main problem is that the development has focused too much on pampering whales and the core game has suffered because of it, I think this is a genuinely good, even brave thing they've announced; they've acknowledged the model they've been following for years is disastrously unpopular, and they have taken a large step towards meeting the objections of their critics. That's an extremely hard thing to do, and I think we should salute them for doing so. Yes, I hedge that statement with the knowledge they also admit they probably couldn't stop it being modded to unlock anyway... indeed the original kickstarter promised Shroud was supposed to be as openly customisable as games like Skyrim. And yes, it may be too late to save the game at launch, because of the lack of quality content outside of store items. But unlocking it all in single player at least gives everyone the chance to access every piece of content that does exist legally, and with open blessings. That's a nice thing to do. What's more, the full forum votes are massively in favour of it, which I admit was somewhat of a surprise. I'd love to know who the few greedy hold outs were; nearly 10% of the votes in Dev+ were against it seems, which is less surprising, and I see Bekers can't resist expressing her lack of class yet again... but it at least shows that both Portalarium and their community as a whole don't necessarily want to actually be defined as that kind of experience. I've always held the Devs weren't evil, they just listened to the wrong voices and let the project drift out of control instead of telling the vocal parts of the community to shut up and let artists create art first; but if Portalarium don't get that yet, this shows they do understand there's something out there that their critics are saying that's worth getting. So let's welcome that, eh? I logged back in just to vote Yes. Everyone here should do, not because it's sucking up to Portalarium, but because we genuinely think doing right by everyone who invested in the game is worthwhile.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 20, 2016 22:51:17 GMT
Sorry Nemo, I just don't get it. When I played Skyrim, there was no add-on store. I didn't have to buy what should come with the game to start with. What use would it be to make offline SP pay for items that no one would ever see, or interact with, except the player?
If they made SP Offline pay for the items, I doubt they would even buy the basic game. Usually, DLCs are the only thing someone pays in a SP Offline game. Not content. I mean, really?
Sure they're doing the "right thing." I don't deny that. But how is that special? Every SP Offline out there makes a complete game, with possibly DLCs for extra cost. What's the big deal?
The big deal was they weren't automatically doing it to start.
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Post by calico on Jan 21, 2016 0:37:27 GMT
Funny they have a vote for this but not adding PoT's.
|
|
|
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 21, 2016 1:57:18 GMT
khael - edited topic to include detail about subject, hope you dont mind!
|
|
|
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 21, 2016 2:01:05 GMT
Funny they have a vote for this but not adding PoT's. Not having POTs in the game wouldn't increase the amount of money they could collect. Quite the opposite, especially since I am guessing Winfield put together a survey of how many people would spend how many dollars if POTs were added with his PAX buddies. I think the $ rewards were even greater than they suspected they would be on top of that, and it was easy money for a while. Having all content available offline can increase the number of $ coming in too. There would only be a few high level backers whom are offended by this. The poll came out of Dev+ already and is now in genpop. It is going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by khael on Jan 21, 2016 4:25:46 GMT
khael - edited topic to include detail about subject, hope you dont mind! Not at all
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 21, 2016 10:31:28 GMT
Funny they have a vote for this but not adding PoT's. Not having POTs in the game wouldn't increase the amount of money they could collect. Quite the opposite, especially since I am guessing Winfield put together a survey of how many people would spend how many dollars if POTs were added with his PAX buddies. I think the $ rewards were even greater than they suspected they would be on top of that, and it was easy money for a while. Having all content available offline can increase the number of $ coming in too. There would only be a few high level backers whom are offended by this. The poll came out of Dev+ already and is now in genpop. It is going to happen. I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, don't understand it. But I think what calico is saying is, it will take no additional development time to allow people to have store items offline (items are already developed). Whereas, it took enormous amounts of time to add PoTs. Yet they asked no one their opinion on PoTs, that have literally impacted delivery date of the game. The only thing I wonder about, why they would even ask whales for their "sanction" to allow store items in SP Offline is pure and utter nonsense. But, if you look at it from the perspective they developed all those ridiculous houses due to whales investing, and the development time that went into them, then the whales do have an "investment" in the literal sense. They are asking their top "investors" what to do about SP Offline. And frankly, that is downright offensive to me.
|
|
|
Post by nemolives on Jan 21, 2016 10:37:33 GMT
Sorry Nemo, I just don't get it. When I played Skyrim, there was no add-on store. I didn't have to buy what should come with the game to start with. What use would it be to make offline SP pay for items that no one would ever see, or interact with, except the player? If they made SP Offline pay for the items, I doubt they would even buy the basic game. Usually, DLCs are the only thing someone pays in a SP Offline game. Not content. I mean, really? Sure they're doing the "right thing." I don't deny that. But how is that special? Every SP Offline out there makes a complete game, with possibly DLCs for extra cost. What's the big deal? The big deal was they weren't automatically doing it to start. It's not doing it that's special; I agree most games would have accepted this basic standard of content decency. It's recognising that they were getting it so wrong that's unusual. Think of it like someone telling you "Hey, your boyfriend is an arsehole", and now they're finally saying "wait a moment, I think you're right"... In this case, it's the people in Dev+ who were saying "None of this for single player people" who were arseholes, but Portalarium has been in love with them, or the money they spent on Shroud at least, for years. But now at last they're noticing all the voices who've been saying "they're bad for you honey". We can bitch and moan about them yes, goodness knows we do, but now Portalarium is starting to put things into the suitcase and look elsewhere, we should be encouraging them to make more steps in that direction... not because we want to gloat, and hate on their ex, but because it's the right thing to do for everyone... except the arseholes, but stuff 'em.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 21, 2016 10:46:39 GMT
Sorry Nemo, I just don't get it. When I played Skyrim, there was no add-on store. I didn't have to buy what should come with the game to start with. What use would it be to make offline SP pay for items that no one would ever see, or interact with, except the player? If they made SP Offline pay for the items, I doubt they would even buy the basic game. Usually, DLCs are the only thing someone pays in a SP Offline game. Not content. I mean, really? Sure they're doing the "right thing." I don't deny that. But how is that special? Every SP Offline out there makes a complete game, with possibly DLCs for extra cost. What's the big deal? The big deal was they weren't automatically doing it to start. It's not doing it that's special; I agree most games would have accepted this basic standard of content decency. It's recognising that they were getting it so wrong that's unusual. Think of it like someone telling you "Hey, your boyfriend is an arsehole", and now they're finally saying "wait a moment, I think you're right"... In this case, it's the people in Dev+ who were saying "None of this for single player people" who were arseholes, but Portalarium has been in love with them, or the money they spent on Shroud at least, for years. But now at last they're noticing all the voices who've been saying "they're bad for you honey". We can bitch and moan about them yes, goodness knows we do, but now Portalarium is starting to put things into the suitcase and look elsewhere, we should be encouraging them to make more steps in that direction... not because we want to gloat, and hate on their ex, but because it's the right thing to do for everyone... except the arseholes, but stuff 'em. Sure, ok I can understand that. But, they polled the asses to begin with, as if going to the Pope to sanction a new order. I mean really? They asked the whales first to get their blessing, and only when they got their majority blessing did they take it to the plebs. They haven't seen what they do has been wrong, not if they asked the whales first. I mean, what game developer does that? "We're developing an MMO, and we're going to allow the MMO investors to decide what we should do with our completely separate SP Offline game." Stuff and nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by nemolives on Jan 21, 2016 10:47:45 GMT
The only thing I wonder about, why they would even ask whales for their "sanction" to allow store items in SP Offline is pure and utter nonsense. But, if you look at it from the perspective they developed all those ridiculous houses due to whales investing, and the development time that went into them, then the whales do have an "investment" in the literal sense. They are asking their top "investors" what to do about SP Offline. Yeah, that is still terrible; but they've always felt they were a niche game, and nerdy communities also tend to be very insular and self protective, LARPers especially. They probably felt that the small community they've got around them were their target audience and as long as you could keep them happy they weren't doing the wrong thing, not noticing how individuals were drifting away even from within that group because most of the core vocal members were still spending money on them. I think their main sin was forgetting how to be developers and feeling part of a community, when the community didn't have the game's best interests at heart. But if they don't ask now, well everyone else has already left so they probably don't have a future community if they can't keep most of those who remain any further. Hardly a moral choice, but probably the only practical one left after ignoring the problem for so long. Personally they should put online PoT ownership up for a poll too, as that's an actual gameplay mechanic locked behind a paywall; as should be things with like craftable radio stations and record players etc, all the stuff that isn't just bit of decorative fluff. I wonder if they'll be brave enough to do so? But it would be for the best.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 21, 2016 10:53:43 GMT
they've always felt they were a niche game, and nerdy communities also tend to be very insular and self protective I would not call the whales nerds at all. Nerds are typically pretty damn intelligent.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 21, 2016 11:01:35 GMT
This part of the email got me too:
See that highlighted part? That could mean anything - from people who never post on the forums, to us and beyond.
Why does it get me? Now I am talking directly to you, Portalarium.
You toss us out of your forum, your toxic high investors chase people out of your forum. You call us toxic. But here you are, every day, reading what we say. Because hate us or not, we are giving feedback you need. You use us, and this forum. And yet we're still labeled toxic. You really don't want the general population seeing what we have to say on the "official" forums. But you pay attention to us anyway, because we are the player base. The way you treat the vast majority of your player base is pathetic.
And yet you will continue using us for feedback, that's better than your tiny fraction of whale voices, who seem to grow fairy wings and hover over everything you say.
|
|
|
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 21, 2016 11:12:33 GMT
I'd like to think they read here for reasons other than drinking games myself... But I'm not so sure that happens lol. External I would guess were potential investment firms and/or other developers probably. Like over a beer with Warren Spector; "Starr, really, what are you guys doing anyway, what is the secret I don't see?" Know what I'm sayin. I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, don't understand it. Simply that by creating and selling POTs they clearly brought in $ that otherwise was not going to ever see their bank accounts. Opening up single player offline modes with all their content is also going to make people feel a lot better about buying a game for 45$ and knowing they can have access to content offline as per usual in a SP game, thus more $ I would say. Portalarium has collected money from every single person that could already have a problem with giving offline players content. They don't care. I am guessing the sales of the game have reached a point that says; we've got to release it and go with patch updates in a quick QA cycle.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 21, 2016 11:39:05 GMT
I'd like to think they read here for reasons other than drinking games myself... But I'm not so sure that happens lol I'm sure they get feedback from a variety of sources, some more "important." But we all know they read these forums. Far too many coincidences in what they say that coincides what we're saying. I suppose there's an awful lot of people saying what we say, at the same time we're saying it. It's anybody's guess. =)
|
|
|
Post by khael on Jan 21, 2016 13:55:27 GMT
It's not doing it that's special; I agree most games would have accepted this basic standard of content decency. It's recognising that they were getting it so wrong that's unusual. Think of it like someone telling you "Hey, your boyfriend is an arsehole", and now they're finally saying "wait a moment, I think you're right"... In this case, it's the people in Dev+ who were saying "None of this for single player people" who were arseholes, but Portalarium has been in love with them, or the money they spent on Shroud at least, for years. But now at last they're noticing all the voices who've been saying "they're bad for you honey". We can bitch and moan about them yes, goodness knows we do, but now Portalarium is starting to put things into the suitcase and look elsewhere, we should be encouraging them to make more steps in that direction... not because we want to gloat, and hate on their ex, but because it's the right thing to do for everyone... except the arseholes, but stuff 'em. Sure, ok I can understand that. But, they polled the asses to begin with, as if going to the Pope to sanction a new order. I mean really? They asked the whales first to get their blessing, and only when they got their majority blessing did they take it to the plebs. They haven't seen what they do has been wrong, not if they asked the whales first. I mean, what game developer does that? "We're developing an MMO, and we're going to allow the MMO investors to decide what we should do with our completely separate SP Offline game." Stuff and nonsense. I beleive the reason they did it is the same reason they always do it. Its a business move make people think you care and give them something you planned to all along. Like when the game had no jumping. The devs didnt like it and knew people wouldnt like it either but they put it out there like that for people to play and let people "feel" like they were helping to change the game by saying they wanted jumpin in the game which was already going to be put in because the devs knew no one would like not being able to jump. Poof next release jumpin was in. Clever of them really because people fell for it hook line and sinker. Theyve done this several times already with things. They know something would be welcomed with open arms or knew something would cause an uproar with people so they use that to their advantage and put out a poll to make people "feel" like theyre makin a difference. Its amazing how many of the people there fall for this every single time. Im not sayin they do this on everything but things they know will cause a stink or things they think everyone would be cool with they put a poll out or ask for input on it. Im not saying their the evil boogeyman because its just business i get that.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 21, 2016 14:18:46 GMT
Agreed khaelSP Offline should never have cause an uproar to begin with. But they created the uproar, doing something no gaming company does with SP Offline, and then when they finally do what every company does, it's suddenly a "bold move?" lol I get what Nemo is saying, that they finally reversed their decision - which is a good decision. But, making a SP Offline game with lots of content should be a good decision to start with. I don't want to come off as too harsh, or having a vendetta and nothing makes me happy. But I think it's laughable they're being lauded for something that should be common practice.
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Post by calico on Jan 21, 2016 14:20:44 GMT
This could be a way to say that yes, the single player game is different. This would allow them to offset any criticism they get for non delivered single player stuff.
|
|
Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
|
Post by Caliya on Jan 21, 2016 14:25:31 GMT
This could be a way to say that yes, the single player game is different. This would allow them to offset any criticism they get for non delivered single player stuff. Ya true. I'm wondering if it has to do with possible tanking sales for the MMO portion, and it's a way to attract new players. This way, the only buy-in is the game itself. Just like any SP Offline game. Because as it stands now, anyone looking at the MMO part will see they no longer have a chance to have the same advantages early backers had. Edit: Oh and, then they can claim the game is not a "cash grab" because they're throwing in everything for one low price. lol
|
|
|
Post by khael on Jan 21, 2016 15:09:47 GMT
This could be a way to say that yes, the single player game is different. This would allow them to offset any criticism they get for non delivered single player stuff. Ya true. I'm wondering if it has to do with possible tanking sales for the MMO portion, and it's a way to attract new players. This way, the only buy-in is the game itself. Just like any SP Offline game. Because as it stands now, anyone looking at the MMO part will see they no longer have a chance to have the same advantages early backers had. Edit: Oh and, then they can claim the game is not a "cash grab" because they're throwing in everything for one low price. lol They can "claim" it aint a cash grab but one look at the pledges and store we can see it is a cash grab and not for average person Their store prices are crazy. Most of things should be sold in sets instead of 1 item its crazy. The house and statue prices are nuts and $10 for wolf or bear head, and hats $10 that dont do nothin? $20 for an outfit average people aint gonna pay that much for that stuff. They need to stop thinkin about the whales that are throwin money at them and think about average people and what they will spend for stuff cause those are the people that keep a game goin long term since its a b2p game.
|
|
titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
|
Post by titsup on Jan 21, 2016 15:42:51 GMT
If they are announcing a final wipe for a game that is not feature complete, they will essentially be announcing the MMO version of the game is released but not the single player. Sure, the SP version may be playable at the same time, but the mive to balance and polish rather than complete features is to the benefit of online players exclusively. I cant see any benefit for SP players by spending the next 6-8 months working towards a final wipe over completing promised features that would benefit all players. This seems like a bit of goodwill for SP players.
|
|
|
Post by dewderonomy on Jan 21, 2016 15:56:00 GMT
ITT: Portalarium are slow learners and fundamentally incompetent at their jobs. They aren't evil, just stupid. Some people feel this change of pace is refreshing and noteworthy; others are face-palming that it took them years to get a clue. Either way, game sucks.
|
|
|
Post by fossil on Jan 21, 2016 16:12:14 GMT
ITT: Portalarium are slow learners and fundamentally incompetent at their jobs. They aren't evil, just stupid. Some people feel this change of pace is refreshing and noteworthy; others are face-palming that it took them years to get a clue. Either way, game sucks. The biggest issue is there is very little game. It's a western version of a Korean mmo...
|
|
|
Post by dewderonomy on Jan 21, 2016 17:18:31 GMT
The biggest issue is there is very little game. It's a western version of a Korean mmo... Minus the bouncing tits, jiggly asses, impressive graphics, character customization depth, wide array of weapons and armor, compelling combat or expansive monster variety.
|
|
titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
|
Post by titsup on Jan 21, 2016 17:49:28 GMT
The biggest issue is there is very little game. It's a western version of a Korean mmo... Minus the bouncing tits, jiggly asses not if some people get their way!
|
|
|
Post by dewderonomy on Jan 21, 2016 17:52:10 GMT
not if some people get their way! I'm fairly certain they don't have the competency to model that behavior. Also, if we can't have hedge rows in the shape of penises, I doubt we'll get dragonscale thongs. Here's to all the Dukes that won't get no satisfaction.
|
|
calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
|
Post by calico on Jan 21, 2016 19:17:21 GMT
If they are announcing a final wipe for a game that is not feature complete, they will essentially be announcing the MMO version of the game is released but not the single player. Sure, the SP version may be playable at the same time, but the mive to balance and polish rather than complete features is to the benefit of online players exclusively. I cant see any benefit for SP players by spending the next 6-8 months working towards a final wipe over completing promised features that would benefit all players. This seems like a bit of goodwill for SP players. That is exactly what is happening.
|
|
|
Post by fossil on Jan 21, 2016 19:44:56 GMT
The biggest issue is there is very little game. It's a western version of a Korean mmo... Minus the bouncing tits, jiggly asses, impressive graphics, character customization depth, wide array of weapons and armor, compelling combat or expansive monster variety. Damn that's so many minuses it's in the negative!
|
|
|
Post by dewderonomy on Jan 21, 2016 20:00:31 GMT
Damn that's so many minuses it's in the negative!
|
|