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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 9, 2015 4:56:41 GMT
Discuss why or why not you think Player Towns should have a limit placed on them. See this thread for references. If you wish to break this topic of conversation down, feel free to create new threads specifically aiming at parts of POTs. www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/petition-poll-please-portalarium-put-a-hard-cap-on-sales-of-player-owned-towns.33853/POSSIBLE REASONS TO LIMIT:
- Too many POTs to fit on the map cleanly.
- Concerns about access points from POTs to NPC towns.
- Degradation of POT values as some POTs will no longer be placed on map at all and connected to someone else's POT. A few dozen POTs could be special, but a few hundred is Insane.
- Degradation of Lot values. Limited space has gone totally out the window thus destroying value invested.
- Fear that POTs will be mostly empty and create boring empty meaningless urban sprawl in the world.
- Fear that potential & current players could be chased away as money loving pilfering grab-asses mass purchase and sell this stuff from their own online stores.
- Fear that future POTs bought with in-game gold are only instanced POTs and not in the map.
- Major delay in game - POTs were not slated for E1 and not in kick start and not a stretch goal.
- Buying & owning PoTs(especially multiples) potentially an unfair advantage, example: allowing them to rent or sell for in game currently generating substantial, continuous income
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Aug 9, 2015 5:07:53 GMT
Here's the thing. The conversation is so biased, you can't have a reasonable one. The POT owners are so whiny when someone brings up the facts, no compromises or agreement can be reached.
When we have a website like Blake Blackstone's charging people to live in his town, he's not about to give up that money. Nor is anyone else posting against a reasonable discussion on the topic. No big surprises there.
Shroud created that monster. Greed feeding greed. They can pull back the reigns and slow down POT progression if they wanted. But they are trashing the whole economy, gaming ethics, chance to attract new customers because POTs on the overland map are capped.
It's so multi-tiered in problems introduced, one has to wonder where to start. It's obvious the whole concept was never thought through to start.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 9, 2015 5:16:38 GMT
That is a good point about the multi-tiered issues.
Should I create a player town sub-forum where we can just go to town on them? Puns <3
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 9, 2015 5:18:09 GMT
Probably, but some are also overlapping, so it still might drift a bit.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 9, 2015 5:25:13 GMT
Probably, but some are also overlapping, so it still might drift a bit. done.
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Post by grimgryphon on Aug 9, 2015 20:00:18 GMT
How the hell did the last twelve people playing this pile of shit manage to purchase 230 POTs? Talk about whales...
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 9, 2015 20:55:00 GMT
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titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
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Post by titsup on Aug 10, 2015 16:21:35 GMT
What about the fact (and I may be off here) that buying and owning a player owned town can give those PoT owners potentially a considerable advantage in game? People have been making the case that the items for sale in the shop has no bearing in game. There are arguments against that, but lets assume that's the case. We've already seen people selling in game space in the PoTs for real money. Who is to say one won't charge rent or lump sums to place homes in their PoT? The provides that individual with a regular source of gold income that players who have not invested substantially money into the game will not have. So, making an Add-On store purchase can directly afford you a significant amount of streaming income in game (or out of game for that matter). If one argues that there will be plenty of housing for everyone, then the financial investment people made prior to release by purchasing houses will be significantly devalued (and also mean there will be empty lots sufficient enough that the world will not seem populated) but if one argues that the plots will be hard to come by on release, then those who didn't purchase homes with real money will be left out in the cold and forced to pay either real world cash to get a home or to funnel gold to the very people who invested in the add-on store, making an add-on item have substantial real in game value beyond cosmetic.
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Post by grimgryphon on Aug 10, 2015 16:24:21 GMT
What about the fact (and I may be off here) that buying and owning a player owned town can give those PoT owners potentially a considerable advantage in game? People have been making the case that the items for sale in the shop has no bearing in game. There are arguments against that, but lets assume that's the case. We've already seen people selling in game space in the PoTs for real money. Who is to say one won't charge rent or lump sums to place homes in their PoT? The provides that individual with a regular source of gold income that players who have not invested substantially money into the game will not have. So, making an Add-On store purchase can directly afford you a significant amount of streaming income in game (or out of game for that matter). If one argues that there will be plenty of housing for everyone, then the financial investment people made prior to release by purchasing houses will be significantly devalued (and also mean there will be empty lots sufficient enough that the world will not seem populated) but if one argues that the plots will be hard to come by on release, then those who didn't purchase homes with real money will be left out in the cold and forced to pay either real world cash to get a home or to funnel gold to the very people who invested in the add-on store, making an add-on item have substantial real in game value beyond cosmetic. Can't we all just agree that SotA has become SecondLife 2.0?
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titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
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Post by titsup on Aug 10, 2015 16:27:38 GMT
I can't agree until they add furry races. I'll keep my eye on the add-on store for that though.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 10, 2015 16:51:47 GMT
I can't agree until they add furry races. I'll keep my eye on the add-on store for that though. Dude, shhhhhh, they had them back in Ultima III. Don't push!
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 10, 2015 16:53:00 GMT
What about the fact (and I may be off here) that buying and owning a player owned town can give those PoT owners potentially a considerable advantage in game? People have been making the case that the items for sale in the shop has no bearing in game. There are arguments against that, but lets assume that's the case. We've already seen people selling in game space in the PoTs for real money. Who is to say one won't charge rent or lump sums to place homes in their PoT? The provides that individual with a regular source of gold income that players who have not invested substantially money into the game will not have. So, making an Add-On store purchase can directly afford you a significant amount of streaming income in game (or out of game for that matter). If one argues that there will be plenty of housing for everyone, then the financial investment people made prior to release by purchasing houses will be significantly devalued (and also mean there will be empty lots sufficient enough that the world will not seem populated) but if one argues that the plots will be hard to come by on release, then those who didn't purchase homes with real money will be left out in the cold and forced to pay either real world cash to get a home or to funnel gold to the very people who invested in the add-on store, making an add-on item have substantial real in game value beyond cosmetic. If you were to summarize that into a single bullet point and put it up in the OP... what would that bullet point be?
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titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
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Post by titsup on Aug 10, 2015 17:06:55 GMT
I'm nothing if not needlessly verbose.
Buying and owning a PoT can give those owners potentially an advantage in game by allowing them to rent or sell for in game currently generating substantial, continuous income
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 10, 2015 17:10:03 GMT
Lol, I understood, but I don't like to try and simplify what others are saying. Chances are I'd muff it up
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 10, 2015 17:11:08 GMT
Updated OP. Also, verbose is good.
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titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
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Post by titsup on Aug 10, 2015 17:13:05 GMT
Concern that non-home owning players will be feeding gold via renting or purchase to those who have invested more financially creating a larger disparity of in game income between high and low level backers.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 10, 2015 17:17:21 GMT
Concern that non-home owning players will be feeding gold via renting or purchase to those who have invested more financially creating a larger disparity of in game income between high and low level backers. Actually I see this is the main attraction for POTs, if you are a Whale that is. Portalarium has rigged it like this, at least sold it like this, for the Whales. However... Recent actions have not gone un-noticed to the POT Whales. POTs being sold now not showing up on the main map will basically be offering unlimited instanced non-map housing... This doesn't sit well with them. This makes my popcorn very enjoyable.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 10, 2015 17:25:02 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 10, 2015 17:33:27 GMT
And when I brought it up in another thread awhile back, saying it went against the "rare, limited," people slammed me for that saying I didn't have faith (essentially). Port would do the "right" thing. And I asked, if you were a business that could make a lot more money, would you limit it for the current players? That's when Drocis told me to take a Marketing 101 class...the first troll to my posts.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 10, 2015 17:38:27 GMT
And when I brought it up in another thread awhile back, saying it went against the "rare, limited," people slammed me for that saying I didn't have faith (essentially). Port would do the "right" thing. And I asked, if you were a business that could make a lot more money, would you limit it for the current players? That's when Drocis told me to take a Marketing 101 class...the first troll to my posts. Yes, that was the root troll which killed the thread. So we have really two options from my brain: 1. Limit them to preserve things I'm not so fond of; whaling for one 2. Open them up sell as many as possible and devalue everything, including my own house/lot. I say sell sell sell, turn it all into nothing
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 10, 2015 17:52:32 GMT
Got my money in PayPal today, I bailed on my house/account. I don't want to stick around for the fallout.
I still have this required Steam Adventurer level account is all
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 10, 2015 17:52:59 GMT
Good thing is, I made more money than I paid, so I made money off my buy-in lol
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Post by bblackstone on Aug 18, 2015 14:48:39 GMT
Here's the thing. The conversation is so biased, you can't have a reasonable one. The POT owners are so whiny when someone brings up the facts, no compromises or agreement can be reached. When we have a website like Blake Blackstone's charging people to live in his town, he's not about to give up that money. Nor is anyone else posting against a reasonable discussion on the topic. No big surprises there. Shroud created that monster. Greed feeding greed. They can pull back the reigns and slow down POT progression if they wanted. But they are trashing the whole economy, gaming ethics, chance to attract new customers because POTs on the overland map are capped. It's so multi-tiered in problems introduced, one has to wonder where to start. It's obvious the whole concept was never thought through to start. Don't really like the greed feeding greed statement. I'm not really a greedy person so I think a statement like that is a bit over generalized. You are right about me not giving up. More important than the money, We've(3 rl friends) have spent over a year of full time work on our town. Its ok for a town to do a kickstarter, or raise guild funds, but not ok to take money out of my pocket and work my butt off on something I consider art. Would it be ok if I was using Patreon? Anyway, we have two totally different views on what POTs could bring to the game. We plan to host plays and musical shows in the theater, run pvp tourney's(the winners get to move into a LM house for a year, free of charge of course), live trading boards for craftsmen: blackstonebluff.com/the-planks.htmlwe'll be hosting quests like this one: docs.google.com/presentation/d/1QLiuXA9xOursFXlymG6txAVXY3S-2z8pwxwIR2zx3bk/edit?usp=sharingShared printing presses for authors and a library. etc. etc. etc. etc. I do consider myself biased towards POTs. Edit: Forgot to mention that we formed up the Tantalus Consortium to help promote town ownership. Made stuff like this: docs.google.com/presentation/d/1plWzG19M-ngJV-pGIWG_EXr7gS_Bz0Jn4a0m1BzP5KA/edit?usp=sharingdocs.google.com/presentation/d/1IcUFVLLm5Fkdd1jt4gHpECEYXCP7uXErv2BUJWEkugQ/edit?usp=sharing
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Post by bblackstone on Aug 18, 2015 14:49:52 GMT
Good thing is, I made more money than I paid, so I made money off my buy-in lol Slightly hypocritical... Just saying.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 18, 2015 15:52:53 GMT
Good thing is, I made more money than I paid, so I made money off my buy-in lol Slightly hypocritical... Just saying. Not really. I wanted out, and told Andernut I needed to break even. I didn't put my account up for bid. He brought me that dollar amount. I had no idea who bid, or what they bid. So I went with the anonymous buyer, the only one he presented. And yes, I do think it's funny I made money on the game when I wasn't even trying to do so. I was glad I got out without a loss.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 18, 2015 15:55:24 GMT
Here's the thing. The conversation is so biased, you can't have a reasonable one. The POT owners are so whiny when someone brings up the facts, no compromises or agreement can be reached. When we have a website like Blake Blackstone's charging people to live in his town, he's not about to give up that money. Nor is anyone else posting against a reasonable discussion on the topic. No big surprises there. Shroud created that monster. Greed feeding greed. They can pull back the reigns and slow down POT progression if they wanted. But they are trashing the whole economy, gaming ethics, chance to attract new customers because POTs on the overland map are capped. It's so multi-tiered in problems introduced, one has to wonder where to start. It's obvious the whole concept was never thought through to start. Don't really like the greed feeding greed statement. I'm not really a greedy person so I think a statement like that is a bit over generalized. You are right about me not giving up. More important than the money, We've(3 rl friends) have spent over a year of full time work on our town. Its ok for a town to do a kickstarter, or raise guild funds, but not ok to take money out of my pocket and work my butt off on something I consider art. Would it be ok if I was using Patreon? Anyway, we have two totally different views on what POTs could bring to the game. We plan to host plays and musical shows in the theater, run pvp tourney's(the winners get to move into a LM house for a year, free of charge of course), live trading boards for craftsmen: blackstonebluff.com/the-planks.htmlwe'll be hosting quests like this one: docs.google.com/presentation/d/1QLiuXA9xOursFXlymG6txAVXY3S-2z8pwxwIR2zx3bk/edit?usp=sharingShared printing presses for authors and a library. etc. etc. etc. etc. I do consider myself biased towards POTs. Edit: Forgot to mention that we formed up the Tantalus Consortium to help promote town ownership. Made stuff like this: docs.google.com/presentation/d/1plWzG19M-ngJV-pGIWG_EXr7gS_Bz0Jn4a0m1BzP5KA/edit?usp=sharingdocs.google.com/presentation/d/1IcUFVLLm5Fkdd1jt4gHpECEYXCP7uXErv2BUJWEkugQ/edit?usp=sharingThanks for making an account and replying, giving us your side. I had not considered fund raising for a guild. But your website doesn't come across as fund raising, but instead making a profit on unsuspecting players, who may have no choice once property is gone.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 18, 2015 18:26:48 GMT
In fact, it comes across as Real Estate Tycoon, so who are you trying to kid, bblackstone?
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 12, 2016 8:36:32 GMT
Welp, we know what happened with this now. In the end they found a way to artificially limit Player Owned Towns. They have done this by allowing an infinite number of Player Owned Towns to be purchased, of course, but have placed a limit as to how many of them can be visible on the game's overland map. Towns purchased after this limit will be "attached" to POTs already visible on the map. In some way.
Sticky removed.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jan 19, 2016 7:48:46 GMT
Meh, forget I said anything. I guess there is just something I can't see that these guys can.
"Housing: It's truly limited."
- The Great Baron F
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Post by khael on Jan 19, 2016 13:42:44 GMT
I think some of those player own town owners gonna be mad once they see their towns wont fill up quick. thats if they do that stuff they said they were in kickstarter a lotto for deeds. Makes me wonder if the coinage to buy them ingame goes away when they put the game out. For that alone i think they should limit POT sales. I think their greed overrides the skill to think about customer backlash over it.
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