Real Griefing - How Do You Define It?

I think the only griefing that exists is when someone puts another player into a situation that they cannot get out of, the player has absolutely no options to avoid the situation, get out of the situation or prevent the situation. For example, res killing is not griefing when a player can easily run some where else to resurrect, or avoid the whole situation entirely. People that think something like this is griefing just think that they should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want, they are overly sensitive, not actually wanting to have to think or do something.

Personally I love that sort of stuff, it's what I live for, I've been in many of those situations within other games. The way I look at it is, I'd rather be able to do stuff like that and have options open to still defeat those 10 people, take over that area, or just not go there at all, rather than to have situations like that taken out of game completely with no way to enable something like that. I not only love the situations, battles, friendships, enemies a system like that can make but I also believe no one should be allowed to just walk into an area and harvest any resource without being at risk of being pk'd. This will never happen but I'm all for world wide pvp and the only protection available is yourself, the guards in the cities and friends, just like how UO was in the prime. I try to understand that the majority of people aren't that hardcore or haven't really experienced such things but a lot of the people complaining about this sort of stuff just want a free ride and don't want to have to put an effort into getting something. In the situation you described, it would be a very easy task to get enough "good guys" together, since they are in fact the majority, then go and defeat those people, defend that area. This seems to also be an aspect that the people complaining aren't interested in, which makes me wonder, why are they even playing a mmorpg?, they need to go find a simulator game where they can get a free ride all day long. Another interesting aspect that a system like this creates is that certain people can control those resources, if they plan well enough to over come those that try to take it. Those people could then sell the resource for a premium, make items to sell or possibly use them for better equipment than others. It opens up a lot of different exciting things. People that want it will have to plan, train to get what they want, or even just pay attention to what times those people controlling it are online/offline and sneak in when they aren't there, hoping you don't get caught. I believe stuff like this is a lot more exciting than wondering into any safe zone with no fear, no risk or anything of the sort.

Ideally, macros shouldn't be effective options in PvP. In SotA, maybe they will be effective because of the combat system's simplicity, but in UO, macros were humorous at best.

I used to macro skills up in UO, and I would macro loot containers so I didn't have to click so much. Generally, I'd macro basic tasks that weren't competitive, but that was just so I didn't have to click all the time.

On the topic of griefing, I think reskilling can be griefing in the right context. If you convince someone that you're genuine and just PvP for the fun of it and then offer a kindly res, only to murder them again and then t-bag, that is griefing. If you find someone AFK at a bank in UO, but far enough away from NPCs, and then murder them, that is griefing, and if you find someone AFK in their house and you earthquake them to death, that is griefing.

What really gets me here is that people aren't even losing anything, besides maybe having to repair, big deal. Even when the game is released, it will have the carebear looting system of the century, which sounds like you rarely will lose much compared to other games. Yet these people still are whining, imagine if they had to play full loot? they would rage quit most likely. Directed towards realitymans comment, I disagree with you because not everyone is playing games like these to roleplay. I am one of them, you'll never catch me roleplaying and I know most hardcores feel the same. Not many people are going to stop a moment and wonder if what they are doing fits a certain ideology.