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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 21, 2015 7:52:19 GMT
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jul 21, 2015 10:37:32 GMT
Well Smart is just pointing out a disturbing trend in kickstarters and Early Access.
Interesting.
I dunno where I sit though but Lum was definitely in the personal attack realm
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jul 21, 2015 10:40:28 GMT
HOLY SHIT WHAT A FUCKING HYPOCRITE.
Lum -1
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Jul 21, 2015 10:59:11 GMT
Can someone explain gamergate to me?
Am I a bad person coz i game?
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 21, 2015 12:54:36 GMT
Can someone explain gamergate to me? Am I a bad person coz i game?
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Post by Myrcello on Jul 21, 2015 13:02:21 GMT
Can someone explain gamergate to me? Am I a bad person coz i game? Depends what source you take. I take this source: She is my hero, because she thinks we Gamers can save the world and actually all are professors in gaming. She is my hero.
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Post by ChodeKillers on Jul 21, 2015 15:02:24 GMT
Lum's hypocrisy and racism is alive and well here. I guess with all the SICK days he takes from working at his All White, All The Time company of Portlarium he has time to write this racist dribble.
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 15:09:19 GMT
Ill give you a russian word for that:
П И З Д Е Ц И З Д Е Ц
Anyway, I didnt even read the article, it looked like some boring ass shit from some 50 yr old manchild who cant get it up and thats why he spends his time writing retarded articles. The site design is horrifying too.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 21, 2015 15:12:15 GMT
Ill give you a russian word for that: П И З Д Е Ц И З Д Е Ц Anyway, I didnt even read the article, it looked like some boring ass shit from some 50 yr old manchild who cant get it up and thats why he spends his time writing retarded articles. The site design is horrifying too. You're missing out You don't really have to read Lums to understand where I am coming from. You can spend 5 mins in the 2nd link to see that. Then it becomes much more interesting.
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 15:15:16 GMT
Can someone explain gamergate to me? Am I a bad person coz i game? Depends what source you take. I take this source: She is my hero, because she thinks we Gamers can save the world and actually all are professors in gaming. She is my hero. Is she retard? "herp derp if we want to solve problems like hunger/poverty we need to game more" Didnt listen past that point, so whats the point of the video?
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 15:15:43 GMT
Ill give you a russian word for that: П И З Д Е Ц И З Д Е Ц Anyway, I didnt even read the article, it looked like some boring ass shit from some 50 yr old manchild who cant get it up and thats why he spends his time writing retarded articles. The site design is horrifying too. You're missing out You don't really have to read Lums to understand where I am coming from. You can spend 5 mins in the 2nd link to see that. Then it becomes much more interesting. Meh to lazy for that. I want to get laid
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Post by fossil on Jul 21, 2015 15:26:42 GMT
Personally I thought Mr.Smart article was fantastic.... I stop putting money into EA or kickstarter games completely.
Even Ark has some big issues which we'll see if they can overcome. But at least like Albion Online there is a base game concept made which you can see... Where it all goes nobody knows.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 21, 2015 15:28:42 GMT
Personally I thought Mr.Smart article was fantastic.... I stop putting money into EA or kickstarter games completely. I agree in full, and as have I.
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Post by Housewife British on Jul 21, 2015 15:55:59 GMT
I'd like to see some examples of the racism, as I really haven't seen many myself. Just seems like the immigrants try to find any situation possible to whine about white people, as usual. I agree that Lum is quite the ass hat though and his dialog within the game is far from impressive.
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Post by Mordecai on Jul 21, 2015 16:26:56 GMT
I've heard claims of racism because of Portalarium's lack of employee diversity, but correlation doesn't point to a causal relationship. I'd bet that their lack of diversity is a result of their location in Texas more than anything else.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 21, 2015 16:43:37 GMT
What Mordecai said. Most IT firms are pretty male and pretty white. I'll give an IT company in Texas the benefit on the doubt there.
CC, the personal facebook post from Lum you are referencing was in decently bad taste and reeks of white privilege beyond a doubt, if none of than than just pure stupidity. Down right shit any way you skin that cat, but just because he works at Port doesn't automatically transfer those qualities to them. No matter what the make-up of their staff may be.
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 16:46:38 GMT
Mord as always is full of shit. Port has: 1. two homosexuals 2. a fat whale 3. old people no diversity? pfff! also check out my pet snail. He's the second in size of 3 and his name is Klux (kek)
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 16:47:23 GMT
I can show u Ku and Klan if u wish later when they wake up.
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 16:48:36 GMT
p.s. have i missed something why people mention EA lately when they talk about sota?>
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Jul 21, 2015 17:13:37 GMT
How long are we now past game delivery date? What else do they have left to play.
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Post by Mordecai on Jul 21, 2015 17:45:06 GMT
When I said "diversity" I meant racial diversity, since we are talking about racism, in case any of you can't figure that out.
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Post by kb on Jul 21, 2015 17:56:21 GMT
p.s. have i missed something why people mention EA lately when they talk about sota?> Acronym for "early access." (confusing though considering UO's history with Electronic Arts)...
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Post by kb on Jul 21, 2015 18:44:59 GMT
What Mordecai said. Most IT firms are pretty male and pretty white. I'll give an IT company in Texas the benefit on the doubt there. CC, the personal facebook post from Lum you are referencing was in decently bad taste and reeks of white privilege beyond a doubt, if none of than than just pure stupidity. Down right shit any way you skin that cat, but just because he works at Port doesn't automatically transfer those qualities to them. No matter what the make-up of their staff may be. I personally think diversity for diversity's sake is worse than having an all white, all male staff (if those white males are truly the most qualified candidates for the job). The job should go to whomever is most qualified. What I mean is that affirmative action is reverse racism if the less qualified candidate is hired to meet a quota and right some perceived societal inequity. Without having sat in on their interviews and having access to the resumes of those who applied, there's no way to tell if they passed over minority hires who were better qualified than those they hired. In fact, I think they have a few women on their team and a couple of the devs have Hispanic last names (which might mean diddly, but still... It's not like every member of the team is a Smith or Johnson). I don't mean to defend them, because they might indeed be racist assholes, but just saying... It's not possible to know. With that said, Austin is probably a bit less homogenous than the rest of Texas and there are probably plenty of people from all walks of life who live there and work in the game industry and are hungry for work, so I doubt the hiring pool is quite as mono-ethnic/cultural/gender specific as it was even 15 years ago. Yet if the social justice warriors are to be believed, then yeah, port are probably just another example of white male privilege oppressing the blah blah blah. I don't buy it though, especially considering origin hired Raph Koster in the late nineties, and if I'm not mistaken his parents are interracial and he grew up living on some podunk island in the Caribbean or some shit like that (I know he might not spring to mind when people think "diversity hire," but just saying, even back in the 90s it seemed they were hiring whomever best fit the task at hand... Also hiring Raph's wife back then, yet another hire of a woman in a male dominated field....) PS - Lum's comments about the black woman being nice to him were stupid though (and yeah... Pretty bigoted/racist). I haven't read his blog post linked above closely enough to judge if he's being equally stupid there, but I just think he went from being a cool dude back in the day to being just another mean spirited yuppie who was coopted by those he used to skewer.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Jul 21, 2015 19:22:21 GMT
Thing is, RG is a privileged white male, from a conservative state, so everything about the company and game pretty much wreak of that, including their funding strategies.
As for comments about FireLotus, honestly they are out of line. So she has a weight issue. What does that have to do with her abilities? You know they are short on game content writing so they threw that job at her too. So some of the story lines are not up to par in my opinion. But it's not what she was hired to do. They're just cheap bastards.
Re: the gamer gate issue I know y'all probably have more fun when I'm not here posting and you now have to consider a female is in the audience. But to be asked about my body when I was new - do guys ask to see other guys' bodies when they post in a forum? Ok maybe if they're gay. Just think about it.
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Post by ChodeKillers on Jul 21, 2015 19:59:51 GMT
What Mordecai said. Most IT firms are pretty male and pretty white. I'll give an IT company in Texas the benefit on the doubt there. CC, the personal facebook post from Lum you are referencing was in decently bad taste and reeks of white privilege beyond a doubt, if none of than than just pure stupidity. Down right shit any way you skin that cat, but just because he works at Port doesn't automatically transfer those qualities to them. No matter what the make-up of their staff may be. I personally think diversity for diversity's sake is worse than having an all white, all male staff (if those white males are truly the most qualified candidates for the job). The job should go to whomever is most qualified. What I mean is that affirmative action is reverse racism if the less qualified candidate is hired to meet a quota and right some perceived societal inequity. Without having sat in on their interviews and having access to the resumes of those who applied, there's no way to tell if they passed over minority hires who were better qualified than those they hired. In fact, I think they have a few women on their team and a couple of the devs have Hispanic last names (which might mean diddly, but still... It's not like every member of the team is a Smith or Johnson). I don't mean to defend them, because they might indeed be racist assholes, but just saying... It's not possible to know. With that said, Austin is probably a bit less homogenous than the rest of Texas and there are probably plenty of people from all walks of life who live there and work in the game industry and are hungry for work, so I doubt the hiring pool is quite as mono-ethnic/cultural/gender specific as it was even 15 years ago. Yet if the social justice warriors are to be believed, then yeah, port are probably just another example of white male privilege oppressing the blah blah blah. I don't buy it though, especially considering origin hired Raph Koster in the late nineties, and if I'm not mistaken his parents are interracial and he grew up living on some podunk island in the Caribbean or some shit like that (I know he might not spring to mind when people think "diversity hire," but just saying, even back in the 90s it seemed they were hiring whomever best fit the task at hand... Also hiring Raph's wife back then, yet another hire of a woman in a male dominated field....) PS - Lum's comments about the black woman being nice to him were stupid though (and yeah... Pretty bigoted/racist). I haven't read his blog post linked above closely enough to judge if he's being equally stupid there, but I just think he went from being a cool dude back in the day to being just another mean spirited yuppie who was coopted by those he used to skewer. Raph was hired by Electronic Arts, notice he was not asked back by RG. One of perks of Portalarium's crowdfunding is they are not beholden to corporate mandates for diversity. Their false sense white supremacy reigns on.
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 20:02:39 GMT
When I said "diversity" I meant racial diversity, since we are talking about racism, in case any of you can't figure that out. I thought we were talking about that thing u call "diversity" when u invite random elderly men to your appartment all the time
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Post by kb on Jul 21, 2015 20:06:24 GMT
Thing is, RG is a privileged white male, from a conservative state, so everything about the company and game pretty much wreak of that, including their funding strategies. As for comments about FireLotus, honestly they are out of line. So she has a weight issue. What does that have to do with her abilities? You know they are short on game content writing so they threw that job at her too. So some of the story lines are not up to par in my opinion. But it's not what she was hired to do. They're just cheap bastards. Re: the gamer gate issue I know y'all probably have more fun when I'm not here posting and you now have to consider a female is in the audience. But to be asked about my body when I was new - do guys ask to see other guys' bodies when they post in a forum? Ok maybe if they're gay. Just think about it. Yes, RG is what you've described, but that doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of people out there who are the total opposite of "privileged white male from a conservative state" who also believe the conventions and norms of the yuppie class are what it means to be successful and have status and they would very likely dream up a similarly depressing vision for the game (with its sprawling suburbs and walled/gated communities). There is certainly a prevailing norm that influences such things, but, that doesn't automatically mean Port refused to hire well-qualified individuals who didn't fit that mold. And, yes, many of the comments about FireSnatch are out of line, but you have to look at who is saying them and why (also, you weren't here, but IM had many people dial it back in some of the words they were using to describe her). I admit many of us can be unfair towards her, but she's not a good community manager, at all. Her gender has nothing to do with that. For one, she doesn't interface with the community proactively (how often do you see her on the forums?) and my CS experiences with her frequently left a lot to be desired (I still never got my R10 hat, despite sending bug reports and multiple emails). Also, it was her banhammer that smited most of us (though it's likely it was at Starr's directive), so you can't expect people to treat ANYBODY fairly who has wronged them in such a way. Her being a woman isn't the reason she is being singled out, at least not in my opinion (though yes, we probably draw attention to her gender in our insults... like when calling her FireSnatch). From what I saw, ONE person (who trolls all of us -- granted, not about our bodies) asked to see your body. In Templara speak, that was probably as diplomatic as a "hello" as he could muster (haven't you noticed the KKK jokes and comments about carebears and shit???). He's hardly an individual that is putting himself out there as the epitome of reason. If you've got a problem, take it up with him. I don't appreciate being lumped in with those who called FL c|_|nt and the ONE person who asked to see your body, especially because IM shut that stuff down fairly quickly and from what I saw, nobody else crossed that line and the fact that he gave you shit was as much a sign of you being accepted here as anything any of us could do/say (sorry you didn't appreciate the manner he did that, but again, I think that is a BIG difference in how a group of guys interact vs. how an "equality"-loving woman EXPECTS to be treated when in place comprised primarily of guys). It's really common for guys to insult each other and take the piss out of each other. You're right, they rarely objectify each other like he did to you, but they normally pick the most humiliating way to insult the other, and it's likely reducing you to your body is precisely how he was doing that. FWIW, if you look back in my post history, I made all kinds of sexual comments to the guest posting as "Envy" after he called me out for my rambling walls of text (implying we were lovers and putting video clips of cheesy romantic songs about how much I missed him when he stopped posting here). Just a way to fuck with him. Not a legit desire to jump his bones (or was it... *wink, wink* @ Envy). A big reason that some of us white privileged males get so tired of the Anita Sarkeesian's of the world is because they frequently cry about male privilege and demand equality, yet suddenly play the victim/damsel in distress whenever a SINGLE individual attacks them. If you haven't noticed, trolley guys like templara attack all of us. Just ask HWB, or Mordecai. He is a trolley individual, and HWB just had to roll with being called stupid and asked if he's had a lobotomy. If he can't hang, oh well. His loss. But, I don't give a shit enough to defend him, just like I don't give enough of a shit to defend you or Anita or any other female gamer who feels marginalized by the templara's of the world. You are posting on a board populated by several INDIVIDUALS who came from an internet background where the normal response to a woman posting something is to immediately shout "TITS OR GTFO!" (which, underneath it's misogyny/etc is actually a cynical demand for verification that the woman in question is actual a woman, as the internet is rife with those like Myrcello who aren't always immediately forthcoming with their true gender -- MMORPG : Many men role playing girls, or some shit like that). IDK, sorry to rant. I have to go get my teeth cleaned (fun fun), but if you don't know 4chan and don't understand the power that comes from none of us being as cruel as all of us, then you won't understand the cultural norms that are happening here, and its less about singling you out for being a female and more about how we are all free to say whatever the fuck we want, even the despicable and terrible stuff (and you can say it right back to him, and me, and any of us). That's why it's cool you spoke up, and I'm sorry if I seem like I'm going off on you, when I'm really not. But, I personally find the current climate of Politically Correct bullshit up my ass at every turn disgusting. There are MANY things posted here that I could find totally out of line (as a "bi" individual, if that's even a PC term to use nowadays), but I don't give a shit because I value people's right to say homophobic shit more than I value this bullshit narrative that I somehow don't have a place here if they make jokes about faggots and all that. All of us are only marginalized if we allow it to happen. The Templara's and IM's and Kuno's of the world (and RG's and Lum's) have very little power in reality. It's only our belief that they do that makes us small. I personally think their homophobic comments just betray their own inability to admit they are all a little bit gay too (and just so full of fear and self-loathing about it that they have to lash out at others using homophobic slurs to insulate themselves from the fact that they've had homoerotic dreams or some shit like that), just like Templara's excessively aggressive posturing probably betrays that he's some lonely Russian sod who is so afraid of being rejected and called out for being a dipshit so he beats us all to the punch first by being a dick to all of us first. Sorry, you are right to call out RG (and all of us for piling on FL), and Templara and any others who objectified you. But, at the risk of being a privileged male, I will say what I would say to ANY gamer who gives too much of a shit about what random people on the internet think: MTFU
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Post by templara on Jul 21, 2015 20:06:40 GMT
Thing is, RG is a privileged white male, from a conservative state, so everything about the company and game pretty much wreak of that, including their funding strategies. As for comments about FireLotus, honestly they are out of line. So she has a weight issue. What does that have to do with her abilities? You know they are short on game content writing so they threw that job at her too. So some of the story lines are not up to par in my opinion. But it's not what she was hired to do. They're just cheap bastards. Re: the gamer gate issue I know y'all probably have more fun when I'm not here posting and you now have to consider a female is in the audience. But to be asked about my body when I was new - do guys ask to see other guys' bodies when they post in a forum? Ok maybe if they're gay. Just think about it. >hurrr durr fat people are actually normal >why do you hate on them Listen, skirt. I'll tell this once, and only once, because the next time you shit out a comment like this Im just gonna stuff something down ur throat. Fat people are sick and unhappy. Even worse, they often force their children to embrace a similar unhealthy lifestile. Which leads to more fat people. Being fat has a lot to do with one's abilities. /rant over /expecting the elderly 40 yr old whiteknight menchildren of the forum to get butthurt in 3..2..1..
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Post by kb on Jul 21, 2015 20:15:34 GMT
Raph was hired by Electronic Arts, notice he was not asked back by RG. One of perks of Portalarium's crowdfunding is they are not beholden to corporate mandates for diversity. Their false sense white supremacy reigns on. A fair point about EA hiring him, but in all honesty, he probably wanted nothing to do with SotA/RG and I bet he wouldn't have worked at Port on a game with such a fucked up vision even if they begged him and paid him truckloads of money ;P
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Post by nemolives on Jul 21, 2015 20:39:25 GMT
Thing is, RG is a privileged white male, from a conservative state, so everything about the company and game pretty much wreak of that, including their funding strategies. As for comments about FireLotus, honestly they are out of line. So she has a weight issue. What does that have to do with her abilities? You know they are short on game content writing so they threw that job at her too. So some of the story lines are not up to par in my opinion. But it's not what she was hired to do. They're just cheap bastards. Re: the gamer gate issue I know y'all probably have more fun when I'm not here posting and you now have to consider a female is in the audience. But to be asked about my body when I was new - do guys ask to see other guys' bodies when they post in a forum? Ok maybe if they're gay. Just think about it. I don't like the trolling and GTFO style either, but I think we both knew this blog and forums were more of the Internet Hate Machine end of the spectrum through personal choice, and it's not really for us to change it, except by leading from example and hoping we inspire people. I will say though that whilst we all increasingly agree on the fact Portalarium has lost control of it's business morals, like you I don't agree on being personally abusive to people about their weight or ethnicity. I'm not even sure you can blame FireLotus for her professional conduct either, because you don't know what rules she's under, or even whether Portalarium are treating her fairly for that matter. I know at Mythic/Broadsword when the Devs cocked up our event set up (or just didn't do it at all, and blamed you for that) we were specifically told to take the personal blame for it to the players, whilst never ever getting any credit for the ideas you fed into the system. The gaming industry is just awful.
And you guys here do push the line rather a lot I've only ever been warned once, years ago for arguing about the Judeo-Christian centric focus of items in game with a particularly evangelical poster; as far as I am aware no action has been taken officially against me on the forums even for my current posts... yet. I've not seen the supposedly racist quote from Lum though, where does it appear? As for Gamer Gate, I think people on both sides forget that ego driven grifters and lunatics rise to the top of every organisation and movement ever; so throwing examples of the worst on each side at each other is just an easy way of avoiding, or not even understanding what the issues are about. I'm reminded of Skub: I tend to lean towards the thought that Sarkesian is the Sarah Palin of the social Justice. She's found a very easy way to make her name, and a living through becoming the face of a movement, and then stirring up controversy to keep it white hot and interesting. Whether she's aware that's why she's successful however, who knows? But that doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate questions of sexism out there in gaming... or for that matter serious problems of anti-male attitudes or group think in the justice movements. Because again, the worst always seem to rise to prominence. And start asking us to spend money on products to prove our loyalty to the cause. Like new videos. Donate now to fight sexism! Or buy trees to get a great game!
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