titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819 
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Post by titsup on Feb 18, 2016 6:27:03 GMT
Before this place goes the way of the Buffalo, I thought I'd make a post amongst the tumbleweeds that are already blowing about. I love reading developer post mortems and always enjoying reading people looking back on their work and pointing out what they felt went right and wrong and how an experience has shaped their thinking. While post mortems are generally done by creators, IM isn't here anymore and while the blog was his, the posters on the forum made this place a different place and so I thought why not.
I found this place after searching for negative impressions of the Shroud's design choices. I began questioning what I felt was an all things to all people approach the developers were putting forth and what seemed an almost unanimous acceptance of that philosophy on the forums. There were a great number of other things that bothered me as well, most notably the promise of 2 further 'Episodes' that would be basically expansion packs and an additional 2 episodes that would be stand alone games. I didn't, and still do not, see how that will be possible.
I started posting here maybe a year or year and a half ago. I've enjoyed my time here and enjoyed reading input from everyone. I think the memory that sticks with me the most is dodgy raging against Templar's banning and saying something to the effect of no one giving a fuck what I have to say. I thought long about whether I should continue posting here after that. I continued to post, but ultimately, I think I agree with dodgy's angry post.
A lot of what I posted here were just general observations or speculation about what I thought might happen. I must admit, I am and will continue to be curious! However, my musings on the topic aren't filled with any astute analysis and really, there's no value in reading what I have to say on the topic.
My take on the game has changed. I'm no longer sour on what potential I thought there was. Port is making a game that a not insignificant number of people like. I've come to believe that the game might even be successful for those people as well! Ultimately, the games success will rely on pleasing a playerbase that extends car beyond those few who are regularly contributing on their forums and through playtesting and it will be on Portalarium to defend decisions they've made.
I suppose I just look at this anymore as a game that isn't for me. I believed it was, but I was wrong. I'm willing to accept a great deal of blame.
Finally, you all have been a consistent part of my days for the past year +. I promise to fade into obscurity on your steam friends lists. You all have made reading and posting here worthwhile. I hope the best for you all and that you find all that you are looking for in your future gaming endeavors.
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Post by Mordecai on Feb 18, 2016 19:00:42 GMT
Your post-mortem idea is interesting and fitting Argyle. I'd like to join you, and I'd also like to invite everyone else to contribute a post-mortem post if they're interested (even if they're just lurkers). After all, we all contributed to the development of SU, active posters or not. I found IM's blog, which was inspired by Baron F's SotA fansite "EvilGrief", (sorry Mord - this is quite inaccurate and I had to edit - IM was first in line) before SU was created . (I'd have edited it after you told me- Dodgy, freedom of speech, quick!) I struggled to understand why his articles were so harsh, but at the time I felt that he was fighting for Truth, so I read and commented all the same. Over time, IM grew to trust me, and we became friends, or acquaintances, or whatever- don't lawyer me  . When he concocted the idea of a new forum, I thought it was excellent. Before long, I was high on fantasies of helping SotA outcasts find a higher purpose. I imagined that together, we would use freedom of speech to encourage (to put it lightly) Portalarium to be more transparent and more considerate in their actions. I even dreamed that one day, Port would accept and respond to the criticisms offered here, that IM and his not-so-merry band would eventually be welcomed back into the community, and that those here would forgive, and maybe even apologize to, Portalarium. I enjoyed posting here, as I didn't have to fear making a misstep and getting a warning, a problem that was growing common on the SotA forum at the time. The freedom allowed us to speak our criticisms without fear, but back then there was a cognizance that, if we were to become critics, we would have to do so without acting like those we criticized, a notion that has since faded. Months ago, with the loss of this cognizance, a shift began to occur, in which this kind of thinking... [changed tense so it can fit with my post better] A lot of what I post here is just general observations or speculation about what I think might happen. My musings on the topic aren't filled with any astute analysis and really, there's no value in reading what I have to say on the topic. was turning into this kind of thinking (not from Argyle mind you, but in general) A lot of what I post here is concrete factual proof of what is happening. My musings on the topic are filled with astute analysis and really, there's substantial truth and value in everything I have to say on the topic. As we grew more certain of our speculations, so too did we grow more certain that our reactions were justified. Eventually, our interests in Truth and in helping others make informed purchases were superseded by our appetites for vengeance. Blind to our own hypocrisy, we took up a new motto, "An eye for an eye," and gradually we became those who we had deplored, our own enemies. One strong memory I have from SU is of how we reviled and responded to Themo's inappropriate behavior with the same, or perhaps even worse, behavior. I think that was when I began to wonder if we had lost our sight. I no longer dream of reconciliation between the involved parties. There have been great wrongs committed on both sides, such that I don't believe it would desirable for re-integration of SU into SotA. Instead, I now hope that, despite the failures of Portalarium, real or imagined, deliberate or accidental, we can all grow to forgive them, not that we may make the same mistakes again ($40,000 investments anyone?), but that we might rediscover our shared humanity. To all the people here, I wish the only the best. Dodgy, you often spoke out against things that the majority agreed with, like moderation, Templar's punishment, the word filters, and so on. I know it can be difficult to swim against the current, and I have always respected your willingness to do so when you believed it to be right. If you wish to maintain contact, look up Mordecai on Steam. My avatar is a retro picture of Wario. Dewderonomy, I don't know where to begin. I suppose lol is as good a place as any. Even when you were writing harsh criticisms, you always managed to lighten things up with humor, something I've never been very good at. I'm thankful to have you friended on Steam, and although I don't play many games anymore, I hope that eventually we find a common gaming interest. Calico, although I've not known you very long, you've proven to be a confident and passionate member of SU. I want you to know that I never believed that the SotA community, or the devs, were innocent or infallible. I only wanted to express that we were (to take up Baron F's recent war metaphor) responding to warring nations by nuking them. Know that I felt great failure in my inability to communicate this to you. At the time, I had no idea who you might be though I've since been told that you are Rune, and although I feel that Rune and Ristra often made the same mistakes in their dealings with each other (missing each others' points and responding to rudeness in kind), know that I have respect for you either way, Rune or not. Caliya, I know we've had our rough patches, but I forgive you as I hope you can forgive me  We've had excellent discussions, informative arguments, passionate fights, very sensitive private messages, that one starlit night in Germany (lmao jk), and I put a lot of trust in you, a choice that I don't regret. I hope that you never forget the actions committed by Portalarium, but I also hope that you can come to forgive the people there some day. You have a large capacity for understanding, and you've always maintained a passion and vigor befitting of a warrior princess. Jackjack, despite your relatively new presence here, I appreciate your ability, and perhaps your preference, to make your criticisms light-hearted. If there is anything I can be certain of about you, it's that you have never (at least not publicly [or at least not with this alt]) lost sight of the gravity of SotA and SU. You always had a grasp on the magnitude of things, never getting too complacent nor too carried away. If I were to make you into a magic card, you would be mono-green. Nemo, you have consistently been a voice of wisdom here and on the SotA forums. You have taught me a great many things, and I always respected your ability to politely disagree with people and to communicate effectively. I always got the impression that you spent as much time considering opposing arguments as you spent considering your own, and I like that about you. If I were to make you into a magic card, you would be mono-blue. Fossil, sorry about accidentally posting your steam tag  Although we died horrible deaths, know that I don't blame you. In fact, I entirely blame your friend, who seemed to have been actively sabotaging our efforts, what with his digging up everything, complete silence, and compulsion to dry-loot me after I died trying to help him. Err, I'm getting side-tracked. I hope to game with you again, and at some point I'll hopefully get Dungeon Masters, or whatever that game was called. From the early days of SU on, I found you to be easy to get along with. You weren't a pushover, but you were sensitive to other people, a trait which I respect. If I were to make you into a magic card, I would make you blue, red, and green. And lastly, to all the people who have either gone silent for the most part or who seldom posted here to begin with, Amber Raine, Blake, Bubonic, ByTor, Sacred Vaniquisher of Erectile Organs, gimmeuoplz, Joviex, KB, Myrcella, Sicherdraht, and Templar, SU's one and only ban, you have my best wishes. |
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Post by fossil on Feb 18, 2016 21:17:55 GMT
If I werea gooder writer I'd like to put something but everyone shall outdo me heres. Puts a sad tear to mine eye  . I think for the most part people overthink that an individual was trying to undercut them on here. What I see is that sometimes it might feel or look that way, I don't think they intentionally did it as a stab to another. I have talked to some recently that feel this way once on here. I for one hope to have another forum ( winks at IM ) that has nothing todo with the game that shall remain unnamed. If not please add me to steam as you can never have too many friends P.s. The fuckers havnt found me yet |
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Post by bblackstone on Feb 19, 2016 0:27:32 GMT
When the going got tough, I got to the good ol' SU forums. Made me feel like I wasn't insane and thinking this stuff up in my own imagination. I remember feeding IM certain things as "Deep Throat"(<---lulz) on the share anything submission form and him doing a write up. I also respected him for ripping on me too when need be. Due to circumstance, I couldn't post as much as I would have liked to but I'll remember these forums when I think back on this crazy experience. I will hand it to SotA, I've never played a game quite like it...
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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Post by calico on Feb 19, 2016 0:39:09 GMT
Your post-mortem idea is interesting and fitting Argyle. I'd like to join you, and I'd also like to invite everyone else to contribute a post-mortem post if they're interested (even if they're just lurkers). After all, we all contributed to the development of SU, active posters or not. I found IM's blog, which was inspired by Baron F's SotA fansite "EvilGrief", (sorry Mord - this is quite inaccurate and I had to edit - IM was first in line), before SU was created. I struggled to understand why his articles were so harsh, but at the time I felt that he was fighting for Truth, so I read and commented all the same. Over time, IM grew to trust me, and we became friends, or acquaintances, or whatever- don't lawyer me . When he concocted the idea of a new forum, I thought it was excellent. Before long, I was high on fantasies of helping SotA outcasts find a higher purpose. I imagined that together, we would use freedom of speech to encourage (to put it lightly) Portalarium to be more transparent and more considerate in their actions. I even dreamed that one day, Port would accept and respond to the criticisms offered here, that IM and his not-so-merry band would eventually be welcomed back into the community, and that those here would forgive, and maybe even apologize to, Portalarium. I enjoyed posting here, as I didn't have to fear making a misstep and getting a warning, a problem that was growing common on the SotA forum at the time. The freedom allowed us to speak our criticisms without fear, but back then there was a cognizance that, if we were to become critics, we would have to do so without acting like those we criticized, a notion that has since faded. Months ago, with the loss of this cognizance, a shift began to occur, in which this kind of thinking... [changed tense so it can fit with my post better] A lot of what I post here is just general observations or speculation about what I think might happen. My musings on the topic aren't filled with any astute analysis and really, there's no value in reading what I have to say on the topic. was turning into this kind of thinking (not from Argyle mind you, but in general) A lot of what I post here is concrete factual proof of what is happening. My musings on the topic are filled with astute analysis and really, there's substantial truth and value in everything I have to say on the topic. As we grew more certain of our speculations, so too did we grow more certain that our reactions were justified. Eventually, our interests in Truth and in helping others make informed purchases were superseded by our appetites for vengeance. Blind to our own hypocrisy, we took up a new motto, "An eye for an eye," and gradually we became those who we had deplored, our own enemies. One strong memory I have from SU is of how we reviled and responded to Themo's inappropriate behavior with the same, or perhaps even worse, behavior. I think that was when I began to wonder if we had lost our sight. I no longer dream of reconciliation between the involved parties. There have been great wrongs committed on both sides, such that I don't believe it would desirable for re-integration of SU into SotA. Instead, I now hope that, despite the failures of Portalarium, real or imagined, deliberate or accidental, we can all grow to forgive them, not that we may make the same mistakes again ($40,000 investments anyone?), but that we might rediscover our shared humanity. To all the people here, I wish the only the best. Dodgy, you often spoke out against things that the majority agreed with, like moderation, Templar's punishment, the word filters, and so on. I know it can be difficult to swim against the current, and I have always respected your willingness to do so when you believed it to be right. If you wish to maintain contact, look up Mordecai on Steam. My avatar is a retro picture of Wario. Dewderonomy, I don't know where to begin. I suppose lol is as good a place as any. Even when you were writing harsh criticisms, you always managed to lighten things up with humor, something I've never been very good at. I'm thankful to have you friended on Steam, and although I don't play many games anymore, I hope that eventually we find a common gaming interest. Calico, although I've not known you very long, you've proven to be a confident and passionate member of SU. I want you to know that I never believed that the SotA community, or the devs, were innocent or infallible. I only wanted to express that we were (to take up Baron F's recent war metaphor) responding to warring nations by nuking them. Know that I felt great failure in my inability to communicate this to you. At the time, I had no idea who you might be though I've since been told that you are Rune, and although I feel that Rune and Ristra often made the same mistakes in their dealings with each other (missing each others' points and responding to rudeness in kind), know that I have respect for you either way, Rune or not. Caliya, I know we've had our rough patches, but I forgive you as I hope you can forgive me We've had excellent discussions, informative arguments, passionate fights, very sensitive private messages, that one starlit night in Germany (lmao jk), and I put a lot of trust in you, a choice that I don't regret. I hope that you never forget the actions committed by Portalarium, but I also hope that you can come to forgive the people there some day. You have a large capacity for understanding, and you've always maintained a passion and vigor befitting of a warrior princess. Jackjack, despite your relatively new presence here, I appreciate your ability, and perhaps your preference, to make your criticisms light-hearted. If there is anything I can be certain of about you, it's that you have never (at least not publicly [or at least not with this alt]) lost sight of the gravity of SotA and SU. You always had a grasp on the magnitude of things, never getting too complacent nor too carried away. If I were to make you into a magic card, you would be mono-green. Nemo, you have consistently been a voice of wisdom here and on the SotA forums. You have taught me a great many things, and I always respected your ability to politely disagree with people and to communicate effectively. I always got the impression that you spent as much time considering opposing arguments as you spent considering your own, and I like that about you. If I were to make you into a magic card, you would be mono-blue. Fossil, sorry about accidentally posting your steam tag Although we died horrible deaths, know that I don't blame you. In fact, I entirely blame your friend, who seemed to have been actively sabotaging our efforts, what with his digging up everything, complete silence, and compulsion to dry-loot me after I died trying to help him. Err, I'm getting side-tracked. I hope to game with you again, and at some point I'll hopefully get Dungeon Masters, or whatever that game was called. From the early days of SU on, I found you to be easy to get along with. You weren't a pushover, but you were sensitive to other people, a trait which I respect. If I were to make you into a magic card, I would make you blue, red, and green. And lastly, to all the people who have either gone silent for the most part or who seldom posted here to begin with, Amber Raine, Blake, Bubonic, ByTor, Sacred Vaniquisher of Erectile Organs, gimmeuoplz, Joviex, KB, Myrcella, Sicherdraht, and Templar, SU's one and only ban, you have my best wishes. I have heard that now a couple of times, that I am Rune. First time was when BDF attacked Rune accusing him of being me in the other forums so I can only assume you heard it from that idiot. Unfortunately the connection got Rune banned, (I have since talked to him) which makes it even more likely that BDF vision of the game will go through. I am sorry this happened. |
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titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
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Post by titsup on Feb 19, 2016 0:45:38 GMT
To be fair to BDF, I mentioned to Mord that you might be Rune calico This was after Rune's banning and was in reference to something you said here on the forums. |
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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Post by calico on Feb 19, 2016 0:52:31 GMT
To be fair to BDF, I mentioned to Mord that you might be Rune calico This was after Rune's banning and was in reference to something you said here on the forums. Ahh well shit happens. See what this website can do though, I think it scares them a bit. |
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titsup
Strong in the Force
Posts: 819
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Post by titsup on Feb 19, 2016 2:07:05 GMT
Honestly, I don't think it did.
I think the website and forums here, in large part, assisted Portalarium and the most vehement Defenders of the game. It allowed the community to label dissenters as SU sympathizers and many of those who might otherwise have expressed misgivings about the game stayed silent so as not to be ostracized. SU afforded Port to define opposition as inherently offensive. It let the community members support an already burgeoning good guys vs. Bad guys narrative. Echoing any argument, regardless of its rationality, from here over there was immediately tainted and branded the product of a den of trolls.
I think overall this place would have been more effective in enacting change there had it had a different tone. There are many people there who are dissatisfied and if one's hope was to channel that dissatisfaction into potential change, one also has to foster a place that doesn't alienate those that might be in partial agreement. The tone here, though, was never my call and I don't begrudge IM for running the website or forums as he saw fit.
I think this place is the least of Portalarium's worries. It provided nice cover for them. They, frankly, have a lot of work in front of them if they want to create a viable product that will drive their company financially through 5+ more years of development. And there's no longer a place for the community to point to as the source of any ill will towards the game. Criticisms, and those who criticize, will have to be dealt with and as they move closer to live servers and attempting to meet expectations, those criticisms will likely increase.
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Post by dewderonomy on Feb 19, 2016 2:50:40 GMT
Dewderonomy, I don't know where to begin. I suppose lol is as good a place as any. Even when you were writing harsh criticisms, you always managed to lighten things up with humor, something I've never been very good at. I'm thankful to have you friended on Steam, and although I don't play many games anymore, I hope that eventually we find a common gaming interest.  Right back atcha', Mord-slice. I for one hope to have another forum ( winks at IM ) that has nothing todo with the game that shall remain unnamed. If not please add me to steam as you can never have too many friends ![:)]()  You have my Steam. And have avoided me in Chivalry, you tap-dancing, arrow-shooting Agatha motherfucker, you. However, my musings on the topic aren't filled with any astute analysis and really, there's no value in reading what I have to say on the topic.  Seriously, I've always enjoyed our conversations, since before SU in our mega-PM with Freeman and Licemeat and others. You know where to find me, old man. You guys have my Steam. I'll be around there and checking on this place until it dies. Maybe we can have a reunion when the SotAberg plummets as a fiery mess into the ground this year(?). Until then, |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121 
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Post by Caliya on Feb 19, 2016 11:32:16 GMT
Shroud of the Avatar stopped being a game when it reached deeply into our real world pockets. It was like walking into some back room deals being made, between the cops, mayor and banksters, and us crying for justice. What we got, in return, was being thrown out on our ear. Civility gets one nowhere in these type of situations. Revolutions are revolting for good reason. If it hadn't been us, it would've been someone else. If someone comes to an angry mob and asks them to lay down their torches and pitchforks, they are likely to be the first to have their heads on a pike. At first, I was afraid to join this community, because I was afraid of IM, and all of you. His words could probably torch me in an instant, if I was on his bad side. But it was Templara and dodgy that gave me a run for the money. My first avatar (below) on this blog was for humor, and to make a statement. When IM got complaints from ProBoards for using the c-bomb, he censored/replaced the word with flower. Perhaps my picture had something to do with that.  It was a hard won battle to be accepted into this community – exactly the same as when I played in UO, and the PvP/PK guilds were not likely to accept a woman PvP/PK. It was purely men posting, prior to my entry, guest access permitted, and I was blasted, probably the worst of anyone at the forum, because I'm a woman. This only served to make me stand up and speak more strongly. It's how I am. When I am interested in something, I throw myself at it with passion – right or wrong. I'm able to behave with decorum – I have the intelligence, education and life experience to behave such – when the occasion asks for it. But this forum, based on IM's blog, where his words cut and humorously insulted the problems in the game, could never be a place of decorum. Nor would I have joined such a forum if it had been. The forum toned down drastically (if one can believe that) after my arrival, for various reasons. I do not want to compliment IM too much, lest I be accused of wanting a room with him. He has his share of issues (as do I, and all of us here) – from making alts (which I am completely against), to being a workaholic, to abandoning the very thing he started. Always the bad, followed by bad conscience and trying to be good, in hopes of re-earning the good grace of Richard Garriott (who I think crap about). My insulting RG earned me a spot in the doghouse, at least as far as I can ascertain. Meh. Never wanting to be on his bad side, it is best to leave the forum. Yet I leave here, and him, with the best wishes. He is an incredibly strong person who can move mountains if he gives it consistency and puts his mind to it. Dewd, your memes and gifs are great, sometimes a bit overdone, but your intelligence is notable. Your writing is eloquent, even in anger. I have enjoyed your posts, a great deal. Yet I know the subject has become boring to you, as it has to most of us here. So mostly the only thing left is humor. Maybe one day we can (all) play a game we agree on. Dodgy, at first you were pretty hard on me and blamed me on Templara's ban. I had hoped to reach Templara's better nature and made inroads with him to some degree. He started laughing at me rather than being a complete ass to me. You and I have different views on things in the real world. And yet we've enjoyed flipping crap at each other. When I've come across things across the web, that remind me of you, I've often wanted to post them. Argyle, before Mordecai came along to tone down IMs blog and the forum, you were a very interesting and fun person to read. You seemed more light hearted. Now it seems you have tried to emulate a “balanced” approach that Mordecai set forth. Yet I do not see this as balanced, I see it as an act. To accomplish what, I'm really not sure. Because (to me) toning anything down will result in the same, or no, results. Yet you seem like a gentle, if not sensible person. The forum wouldn't be the same without you. Fossil, if you didn't own almost 200 games on Steam, you might spend more time in the forums. Lol I appreciate how things never seem to get you down, and not for long if they do. You seem to really just roll with whatever comes along and don't get too bogged down in it. Whether you can write well or not, doesn't matter because we've all enjoyed your company here. Myrcello – oh what an interesting person that joined us late. I always appreciated your posts, even when you were critical of us. I hugely appreciate your sense of beauty. The videos you've shared with us, ideas, have been greatly valued by me. And now that you've taken to watching me play games (badly) on Steam, and we discuss games there, I look forward to continuing a game buddy friendship. Nemolives, your input in the forum has been invaluable. Your videos have been highly entertaining, humorous and witty. You leave no stone unturned and are very thoughtful in expressing how you view things. I love your pirate voice. If any multiplayer pirate games come along, we really should jump in them as a group. Yar! Kb, what can I say? You and I clashed at the SotA forums, but you apologized for your behavior, and that took courage. People don't ignore you as much as you think. You have a lot to say. I'm glad we could be civil with each other, and that I could see your views. Calico, you and I have often disagreed but also agreed a lot. I don't know you or your views very well. But I'm glad you've been here. Mordecai, I'm not really sure what to say except that I wish you well. I can forgive but I never forget. I have always felt your focus is different than mine, and you approach problems opposite than me. We have clashed and that will probably remain. If you are now a forum moderator, all the more reason for me to exit. Blake, you didn't participate much, and I enjoyed taking stabs at you before you sold off your SotA accounts. I really don't know much about you, but I'm glad you've participated here and wish you well. Jackjack, where did you go? I had enjoyed your posts so much. I wish you'd participated a lot earlier. Same for khael, and warderdragon, oh how your posts were appreciated. All of you, thoughtful and interesting posts. I'm sorry if I left anyone out, I have already made this miles too long. I've appreciated everyone that's posted here, even when I disagree. All of you, and I do mean ALL, have given me food for thought. I have thought about many of you daily, off the forum. You've all affected my life. For good or bad. And I love you all for it. Last, fuck you all. Fuck you for making me think about you and what you think. Because you're all now stuck in my head. So many of you had given me hours of fun, where we've laughed and commiserated together. I will always treasure those times. |
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Post by Mordecai on Feb 19, 2016 13:50:33 GMT
I for one hope to have another forum ( winks at IM ) that has nothing todo with the game that shall remain unnamed. Interesting proposition. Limitedshroud.boards.net? Unfortunately the connection got Rune banned I hope he wasn't perma-banned, especially since you and he have denied the claim. It seems unfair to moderate based on hearsay (though not unimaginable). Shroud of the Avatar stopped being a game when it reached deeply into our real world pockets. Do you mean to say that it never was a game? From the beginning, we've had $10,000 pledges. Granted, it didn't seem as important then to own a house or POT. Civility gets one nowhere in these type of situations. We respectfully disagree once again Gandhi's examples of peaceful protest come to mind on the contrary. If someone comes to an angry mob and asks them to lay down their torches and pitchforks, they are likely to be the first to have their heads on a pike. Trust me, I know that all too well. An angry mob no doubt has the power of violence, but they also have the weakness of their concerns being dismissed as merely those of an angry mob. I believe that that is the sole reason that much of what was said here was taken less than seriously by the SotA community at large. I had hoped to reach Templara's better nature and made inroads with him to some degree. Glad to know that I wasn't the only one working for that. I remember writing pages to him, to which he responded, "fuck off flower." My frustration was shadowed by amusement. Something about his style was comical, and I think that's what we all liked about him, even despite his insulting ways. Argyle, before Mordecai came along to tone down IMs blog and the forum... I recall discovering SU before your arrival, and I've always sought to tone down the hatred, just with varied methods over the months. Do you mean to suggest that I've changed since I arrived? If so, you are right. You seemed more light hearted. A more appropriate adjective instead of "light-hearted" would be "angry". Now it seems you have tried to emulate a “balanced” approach that Mordecai set forth. I'd say that I emulate Argyle, not the other way around. Being a scholar of philosophy, Argyle has been vital in keeping my head on straight, and I've sought his counsel more than once. Yet I do not see this as balanced, I see it as an act. You are right. It is an act. You'd be a fool to believe that I'm truly as I present myself. I am inherently human, no less than you. I have great pride, vanity, foolishness, passion, sensitivity, rage, and all the other standard characteristics. To be "balanced," or as I'd prefer to put it, "critical but not hateful," takes a deal of effort on my part and does not reflect my core character. To accomplish what, I'm really not sure. Because (to me) toning anything down will result in the same, or no, results. For all you have done for me, you at least deserve to know why. I have always believed that the path to being taken seriously, to having our criticisms heard, was virtue (and not just because of SotA/Ultima/Virtues etc). I would posit that the approach emphasized here, your method, has failed to enact change, and has only served the end described by Argyle. We've been weaponized as a label of foolish rage, used to discredit all who disagree with SotA. Even so, we both sought to urge Portalarium to be more decent in their actions, and to help players know what they were buying into, and we fail together! |
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Post by Mordecai on Feb 19, 2016 13:53:51 GMT
Oh, and Myrcello, you're awesome. Lord Baldrith and Ome the Bard and Bowen and Rustic Dragon too.
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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Post by calico on Feb 19, 2016 19:46:52 GMT
Unfortunately the connection got Rune banned I hope he wasn't perma-banned, especially since you and he have denied the claim. It seems unfair to moderate based on hearsay (though not unimaginable). He was perma for sure, I have been told as much. They used 25 infracdtions as justification, regardless of the level of infractions. I think it has more to do with me then him though. |
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Feb 19, 2016 23:27:43 GMT
It's good to see the bane of SOTA finally disband. I wouldn't actually say bane you guys were just stupid whiny trolls. You all thought you had something important to say but you were just bitter you hadn't invested time in the game testing. I spent hours on testing, on videos ,, on pvp. I made the pvp scene. All AA did was whinge and make mine craft maps.
You're all so gullible and easily manipulated. So long losers.
Time for the Duke to depart.
Cheers for the laughs and giving up your identities
Violation
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Feb 19, 2016 23:29:13 GMT
Gandhi's examples of peaceful protest come to mind on the contrary. Gandhi, the leader of the Indian independence movement, paid a visit to England in 1931. Whilst there, a reporter shouted out, "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi instantly replied, "I think it would be a good idea". And, the British thought extremely bad things of Gandhi and Indians. As if they were ungrateful hate mongers. The British killed the opposition. When Gandhi's movement turned to killing, he went on hunger strikes. I, nor anyone here, never claimed to be on the level of Gandhi. The only people that engaged in forms of threats of actual violence were doxxers, who hated us here. Be careful who you paint as hateful. A more appropriate adjective instead of "light-hearted" would be "angry". Do not put words in my mouth, or correct what you think I said wrong. Also, I do not see anger as something terrible nor to be avoided. I would posit that the approach emphasized here, your method, has failed to enact change Concrete proof and results? You have none more than I do. The fact they read this blog is proof enough to me that we made more inroads than they, or you, will ever admit. No one wants to be hated. It is human nature to want to be liked. They, and you, are no different. We've been weaponized as a label of foolish rage That sentence is nonsensical. The only fools I see are the management of Portalarium, estranging decades old fans. I am no fan of his, by any stretch of the imagination, but apparently Donald Trump finds huge value in rage. He spends the majority of every sound bite in a rage and leads the polls. I do not agree with his stands on most things, but there is a place for the people who agree with his rage. I might call them all insane, but they have a right to be heard. Some people think Sanders is a raging socialist, to be feared to the extreme. And yet he is voicing something a large percentage of people agree with as well. Truth can often be branded as "rage." Jesus turned over tables at the money changing markets, in a rage. Should he have politely, and calmly asked them to stop? Just why do you think they crucified him anyway? Because he was diplomatic? I do not consider we have failed at anything. I can't speak for anyone else, but I am leaving this forum, not because you are here calling the shots, not because I'm afraid, not because of any reason other than: I am bored senseless of talking about a shit game. Let those who think the game is great play it. There is enough information here for people who are on the fence, or want to avoid the things that made us so angry. You seem to think that we could have, at one time, had a civil discussion and been welcomed back. In the beginning, at the SotA forums, we tried to have civil discussions. You either had to be very sneaky, measure your words to the point that your stomach turned, or get kicked off the forums. Yet somehow you think we could have it, off their site? Such silly views. I never wanted back in that fucked up forum anyway. You remind me of far too many men, who have been authoritarian fathers, coming down on their own children for having a mind of their own and voicing their own views. I will not be treated as a child, lectured, or talked down to. Women tend to be more sensitive to this issue, because they are the most suppressed and since we have been suppressed for centuries, will not stand for it anymore. "If only you had done it this way." What nonsense. Have fun moderating a forum where there is nothing left. If the guys play any games you are in, I will not play unless you have a microphone, because honestly? I think you're someone over at that other forum or Portalarium - or at the very least, not who you say you are, that has tried to shut us down for a very long time and your voice would be recognized. |
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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Post by calico on Feb 20, 2016 0:21:24 GMT
It's good to see the bane of SOTA finally disband. I wouldn't actually say bane you guys were just stupid whiny trolls. You all thought you had something important to say but you were just bitter you hadn't invested time in the game testing. I spent hours on testing, on videos ,, on pvp. I made the pvp scene. All AA did was whinge and make mine craft maps. You're all so gullible and easily manipulated. So long losers. Time for the Duke to depart. Cheers for the laughs and giving up your identities Violation If you really are Violation, at least I can type this out: You are a douche. |
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Post by bblackstone on Feb 20, 2016 0:29:43 GMT
It's good to see the bane of SOTA finally disband. I wouldn't actually say bane you guys were just stupid whiny trolls. You all thought you had something important to say but you were just bitter you hadn't invested time in the game testing. I spent hours on testing, on videos ,, on pvp. I made the pvp scene. All AA did was whinge and make mine craft maps. You're all so gullible and easily manipulated. So long losers. Time for the Duke to depart. Cheers for the laughs and giving up your identities Violation Dang... you got me. I'm Blake Blackstone! Thought for sure I had thought up an unbreakable code name. |
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Post by bblackstone on Feb 20, 2016 0:45:48 GMT
You remind me of far too many men, who have been authoritarian fathers, coming down on their own children for having a mind of their own and voicing their own views. I will not be treated as a child, lectured, or talked down to. Women tend to be more sensitive to this issue, because they are the most suppressed and since we have been suppressed for centuries, will not stand for it anymore. "If only you had done it this way." What nonsense. You always fall back on your hatred for men. Since this is a stupid forum, I'm responding before you go. If there is one thing to work on in life it's to overcome that... You are only suppressing yourself, it's an overpowering theme with you. Best wishes. (I know Im one of those big mean males in the world who is talking down to you, no need to respond.) |
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Post by grimgryphon on Feb 20, 2016 2:59:03 GMT
It's good to see the bane of SOTA finally disband. I wouldn't actually say bane you guys were just stupid whiny trolls. You all thought you had something important to say but you were just bitter you hadn't invested time in the game testing. I spent hours on testing, on videos ,, on pvp. I made the pvp scene. All AA did was whinge and make mine craft maps. You're all so gullible and easily manipulated. So long losers. Time for the Duke to depart. Cheers for the laughs and giving up your identities Violation dodgy! Now why would you want anyone to think you're that whiny pussy fucktard Violation. You should think better of yourself. |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Feb 20, 2016 11:22:12 GMT
It's good to see the bane of SOTA finally disband. I wouldn't actually say bane you guys were just stupid whiny trolls. You all thought you had something important to say but you were just bitter you hadn't invested time in the game testing. I spent hours on testing, on videos ,, on pvp. I made the pvp scene. All AA did was whinge and make mine craft maps. You're all so gullible and easily manipulated. So long losers. Time for the Duke to depart. Cheers for the laughs and giving up your identities Violation Dodgy, drop the bottle of booze and go sit in the corner. |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Feb 20, 2016 11:23:23 GMT
You always fall back on your hatred for men. Since this is a stupid forum, I'm responding before you go. If there is one thing to work on in life it's to overcome that... You are only suppressing yourself, it's an overpowering theme with you. Best wishes. (I know Im one of those big mean males in the world who is talking down to you, no need to respond.) Hit a sore spot with ya, eh? |
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Feb 20, 2016 13:17:00 GMT
It's good to see the bane of SOTA finally disband. I wouldn't actually say bane you guys were just stupid whiny trolls. You all thought you had something important to say but you were just bitter you hadn't invested time in the game testing. I spent hours on testing, on videos ,, on pvp. I made the pvp scene. All AA did was whinge and make mine craft maps. You're all so gullible and easily manipulated. So long losers. Time for the Duke to depart. Cheers for the laughs and giving up your identities Violation Dodgy, drop the bottle of booze and go sit in the corner. |
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Post by nemolives on Feb 20, 2016 13:47:32 GMT
A post-mortem for Shroud Unlimited? Let's talk about what the cause of death was first; the forums here haven't withered because the people have no vitality left, nor have they been sapped by the wave of bans, or the attitude of the pro-Shroud community. Rather, the sad truth is that the recent announcement that Shroud is pushing for final launch in such an incomplete state, combined with the horrendous attitude behind the bans, has finally shown the game itself is now beyond saving. Call Shroud Unlimited a parasite of SotA if you wish, but when the host itself dies... What else is left to say? No one here wanted the game to fail, all our warnings and barbs were designed to try and correct the course we saw being sailed, but when the final course is locked in, and it's clearly headed straight into the iceberg, the only thing left to do is scramble for the life-rafts and leap over the side. There are no gameplay mechanics in game now that will allow anything other than text based FedEx quests to be used; the last minute gamble of giving all the content to single players does nothing to change the fact the game has gone MMO heavy and if you want a Massive Multiplayer audience you have to play fair by them all in the multiplayer arena, and Shroud clearly does not. It's too late for an entire crafting overhaul, so the design will remain as RSI inducingly frustrating as currently. The instancing issues are all going to remain as they presently do. And worst of all, the elitist, ostracising community has now become official policy with the process of removing people from the community just because they publicly speak in ways which, when the game gets it's launch reviews is going to come crashing through the safe spaces of the SotA mind no matter what they choose to believe now... People here are giving up not because they've lost, but because Shroud cannot possibly succeed any more. Sure, Richard Garriott alone has enough money to keep the game ticking over as a tiny niche product forever, if he wishes. Many MMOs do this; right now I'm idly playing Uncharted Waters Online again, which has survived years of a tiny budget. If that's what Richard wanted though, he would have thrown in the money to make his dream game already however. Nor can I see the other individuals involved wanting to lock their future careers into keeping a minuscule number of players happy... a Vice President at Disney, say, wanting to spend 5-10 years locked into buying Unity assets and pretending that's being at the cutting edge? How much joy can you get from working "with" your hero Lord British, when Lord British doesn't seem to know much at all about what you're putting into your own game? It's over, we all know it; it's only here at Shroud Unlimited that we're prepared to actually admit it now. We're not quitting, we're getting out before the final rush for the doors. So in that sense, what does it matter if Dodgy was really Duke Violation, or just trolling? All the comments to my videos, the Eurogamer articles etc about how people are either horrified by or avoiding the game aren't based upon whether people here are great, or arseholes, or spies for other communities at all. Banning us from the game now doesn't affect whether we'd want to play it tomorrow, or that other people would enter the community in the future and play the game despite us, because it seemed so brilliant otherwise... nor on the other hand does trying to slander Violation with trolling matter because frankly, the community of Shroud has spoken for itself to the wider world with Player Owned Towns and it's Whale Song. And neither changes the objective facts that banning people for dissent is a spectacular public relations own-goal. In a healthy community of millions, a single outspoken voice can be ignored; cracking down so intolerantly just shows how weak and insecure the community is now. Sure you could make an argument for Insane for "running a hate site", but banning Rune_74 from Steam? So even if Dodgy was Violation then all you've done is help shoot your own community in the foot. Personally I'll state I think it was just a very poor attempt at satire, but really, who cares? The dice have already been cast. I'll also say that for those of us who openly stood by our criticism and at least tried to do so fairly, Portalarium haven't acted against us all of us yet, so they aren't made up entirely of insecure bullies. I just checked and I'm not banned from the Steam discussions or from the official forums. However, this image I think shows the wider truth;  I'm still getting likes for my last, disgusted contribution months later. Including from some well known names... and that thread must be buried deep into the forums by now. Did our resistance do any good for the game? Who knows, when all we ever got outside of the cash-selected Whale community was generic "we listen even to our critics" comments... I couldn't afford to offer my talents at any sort of Dev+ level that would get noticed, and if any of my attempts at informed criticism from outside the circle were seen, I'm not aware of it. Were Portalarium lurking here? I'd hope so, but the game as it is now is entirely theirs, because it was never truly crowd sourced if it didn't include the virtues of all of the crowd. But the people out there, they didn't feel so alone in their critical thoughts, and that matters. And the community here? I thank you all for your kind words, but I don't want to go through each of you name by name and give a personal opinion; after all, what do I really know of you? We're united by something which, by it's very flawed nature, isn't likely to bring out the best of us, even where we try. And for those with whom I disagreed with, I was arguing against the part of you that was Shroud, never you personally. And who I found myself side by side with would shift daily as peoples moods and tolerances changed anyway; when I was aggressively critical, Dodgy and Templar would be more supportive; when more rational, the AvatarAcid side of Insanemembrane loved it; Caliya, you're a rule unto yourself, sometimes we agreed and sometimes we argued! But what made Shroud Unlimited work was that we were all a community together, despite the differences. That we will all go our separate ways most likely post SU isn't a weakness, it's just how online communities work. They clump together around shared interests, and reform elsewhere. Shroud itself will fail because it's now locked into not caring outside it's gated community; I hope most of those staying in New Novia find other lands where they'll be happy in the future too, but here and now, they're determined not to welcome us, and we wanted to love the game. I will admit I'm going to miss checking in here daily to hear some new outrage against love and decency; that strangely pleasing sensation that something you said was bad for people turned out to really be so. But I share IM's thoughts that it's gone beyond the point where it's helpful any more; without hope for a better future, it just becomes debilitating to relive atrocities again and again. Speaking of... I was hoping to make my next video review of Verdun (the game) as it's the 100th anniversary now, but haven't got around to it yet... real life has proven too exhausting. But I'll try. Meanwhile, if people here want to re-unite for Shroud's own post-mortem, I'd be up for it! |
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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Post by dodgy on Feb 20, 2016 13:54:39 GMT
So even if Dodgy was Violation then all you've done is help shoot your own community in the foot. Personally I'll state I think it was just a very poor attempt at satire, but really, who cares? The dice have already been cast. Clearly it was awesome satire coz ummm people are talking bout it! DUH COME ON I GOT A FUCKING TOTALLY DIFFERENT ACCENT TO THAT CHUMP AND A SENSE OF HUMOUR SHEESH |
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Feb 20, 2016 17:26:02 GMT
COME ON I GOT A FUCKING TOTALLY DIFFERENT ACCENT TO THAT CHUMP AND A SENSE OF HUMOUR SHEESH I knew it was satire, I've heard you on Teamspeak and unless you're really good at imitating an Aussie, there's no way. Violation is an 'merican Besides, it's your style. He has none. |
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. When he concocted the idea of a new forum, I thought it was excellent. Before long, I was high on fantasies of helping SotA outcasts find a higher purpose. I imagined that together, we would use freedom of speech to encourage (to put it lightly) Portalarium to be more transparent and more considerate in their actions.
We've had excellent discussions, informative arguments, passionate fights, very sensitive private messages, that one starlit night in Germany (lmao jk), and I put a lot of trust in you, a choice that I don't regret. I hope that you never forget the actions committed by Portalarium, but I also hope that you can come to forgive the people there some day. You have a large capacity for understanding, and you've always maintained a passion and vigor befitting of a warrior princess.
Although we died horrible deaths, know that I don't blame you. In fact, I entirely blame your friend, who seemed to have been actively sabotaging our efforts, what with his digging up everything, complete silence, and compulsion to dry-loot me after I died trying to help him. Err, I'm getting side-tracked. I hope to game with you again, and at some point I'll hopefully get Dungeon Masters, or whatever that game was called. From the early days of SU on, I found you to be easy to get along with. You weren't a pushover, but you were sensitive to other people, a trait which I respect. If I were to make you into a magic card, I would make you blue, red, and green.
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