Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 1, 2015 20:11:54 GMT
This was sort of what I was getting at with my original post of prices, only I was basing it off the gold selling sites. Obviously, who knows if anyone is buying from those sites to create any real market value for them to set for real money gold transactions anyway. I definitely agree though, I think they'll price them at a point where it would be a better value to purchase with real money than in game gold. I won't blame them for that, they'll sort of need to to keep from completely alienating backers. Its the degree to which that occurs that I think is the real question. Of the original 22,234 backers who actually were receiving a copy of the game (88 were at the $5 level), only 4.5% were at a level that would give them a home (Ancestor and up). Even if that's changed, man, that's a huge percentage of backers who might be hoping to acquire a home by means other than real money. I actually didn't realize that percentage was so low coming out of the kickstarter. My numbers were admittedly way off. I sold off my account long ago, so I have literally no idea of the value of gold in that game and even if I did now, the current game economy has no bearing on what the future game economy will look like.
The real worth is going to be in Gold itself, assuming the game has a healthy economy (which I don't expect it will) because below Ancestor any property you own is supposed to have a monthly tax upon it. So you need Gold for that. And the lot itself? Well, the recent changes to Pledge Rewards was to try and force people into upgrading NOW NOW NOW because if you don't, you'll lose all the spare lots and Property you would otherwise have had... so they won't be on the market either. Thus in order to satiate the 1% they've wrecked player trading in Property, you'll have to buy a home and lot from an NPC. Which requires Gold again. Will that Gold price be low? If you want to keep the playerbase, I'd assume so. They need to have some sort of realistic time-scale to get it in. BUT! You and I both know that will upset the 1% again; In Release 19, a Village lot (just the lot) was 60,000 gold. I was nowhere near that with all my play time and testing... but people on the forums were asking that it be raised even higher. So I'm expecting it'll be set very high. Because Portalarium seems to have forgotten how to keep funding a game and designing a game separate. Well except one thing. Gold may not be required. It may become a worse scenario, depending on what they choose to do. From this Housing Update from March 2014: So what happens if you don’t get a property deed during the crowd-funding phase? There will still be some property deeds made available after the game goes live. We are currently looking at what the most fair method of distribution will be. The three main options currently being considered are: Put a deed up per week per area with an opening for a 1 week auction using in game currency. This would obviously be VERY competitive! Lottery system. Tickets are sold for a week and then we hold a random drawing to give away a few property deeds. This will ensure that more people have a chance and makes it more exciting for the masses but could frustrate some players. Land Rush! We would set a very high but fixed in game price for deeds and let people race to get them. This could be too rewarding for the earliest adopters and also could result in some negative side effects like organized groups or farmers working together to buy property deeds purely for resale reasons. And look at some of the comments (I like Trenyc's that are completely ignored), from the SotA Lottery thread
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Post by nemolives on Aug 1, 2015 21:27:29 GMT
I don't believe they have any intention of doing that now; the last time I looked at the Land Rush design it was going to be based purely upon total spend; Highest Tier first with those spending more in the store going first at that tier. There wasn't going to be a lottery or anything else, and the line "very high but fixed in game price" matches what I was saying, it would be a high Gold price so grind like mad to place...
... except now Player Owned Towns means they've got way, way too many plots to ever fill. Because herp derp FUNDIN
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 1, 2015 21:42:09 GMT
I don't believe they have any intention of doing that now; the last time I looked at the Land Rush design it was going to be based purely upon total spend; Highest Tier first with those spending more in the store going first at that tier. There wasn't going to be a lottery or anything else, and the line "very high but fixed in game price" matches what I was saying, it would be a high Gold price so grind like mad to place... ... except now Player Owned Towns means they've got way, way too many plots to ever fill. Because herp derp FUNDIN True, if they ever got the point they wanted to sell houses in game, if it became a lottery or raffle, people would pay outside the game for gold. But as it now stands, there are too many plots and it may never come to that.
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Post by grimgryphon on Aug 1, 2015 23:14:30 GMT
I don't believe they have any intention of doing that now; the last time I looked at the Land Rush design it was going to be based purely upon total spend; Highest Tier first with those spending more in the store going first at that tier. There wasn't going to be a lottery or anything else, and the line "very high but fixed in game price" matches what I was saying, it would be a high Gold price so grind like mad to place... ... except now Player Owned Towns means they've got way, way too many plots to ever fill. Because herp derp FUNDIN True, if they ever got the point they wanted to sell houses in game, if it became a lottery or raffle, people would pay outside the game for gold. But as it now stands, there are too many plots and it may never come to that. Way too many plots. We are now a couple of days in R20 and most of the towns I've visited are still a quarter to half empty.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 2, 2015 1:13:57 GMT
Yeah, agree with all that. The only reason I factored in the price of RMT gold was because is one can simply purchase 10,000 gold for say $25, it would essentially make it far cheaper to purchase property at release by paying $150 for that Village plot buying gold from an outside source. I imagined that would piss people off who backed at a far higher $ amount prior to release for the same piece of property. I am sure it would but wouldn't the larger negative effect on the game be the extinguishing of all available house lots?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 23:51:03 GMT
Cali-Hoe owned...
Dewd... You sit here entirely too much bitching about a game that you don't even play.:. Something very, very psychotic about that... More blah blah fockin blahs. She hasn't beat in anything kettle... your research link fails.
IM... As soon as magic powder for weapons & increased damage in pve got cash money... All hell would break loose... My bet... It doesn't happen that way.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 6, 2015 0:19:08 GMT
Here we go, this croped up recently over on SotA forum... Aren't they soooooo cute? lulz. www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-many-hours-of-play-should-be-required-to-purchase-property.34834/I'm telling you guys... With the amount of crap going on and over complexity in Shroud of the Avatar, you aren't just going to be able to buy a lot for gold and just go plop it down. I can't see it happening. Nothing else is that simple in the game. Nothing else is that easy on players in the game. They clearly are directing "housing" gamers exactly where they want them, and that place is going to be nowhere good for gamers in the long run. But hey, who am I, throw down your cash for Port so you can have access to non-instanced housing before you understand the process. That is what we did, and that is how we got fucked!
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 6, 2015 0:46:42 GMT
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titsup
Strong in the Force
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Post by titsup on Aug 6, 2015 1:25:29 GMT
One dude says 9 months for a row home. 9 months? How much content do they think this game will have? Isn't part of this game's concept to eliminate the stale grinding found in other games? Yet people are proposing insane periods of time to acquire an in game home.
I wonder how many of those players have paid real cash for their homes. 'For you to get what I have, you should have to play until Episode 2 is released'.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 6, 2015 1:54:17 GMT
Here we go, this croped up recently over on SotA forum... Aren't they soooooo cute? lulz. www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-many-hours-of-play-should-be-required-to-purchase-property.34834/I'm telling you guys... With the amount of crap going on and over complexity in Shroud of the Avatar, you aren't just going to be able to buy a lot for gold and just go plop it down. I can't see it happening. Nothing else is that simple in the game. Nothing else is that easy on players in the game. They clearly are directing "housing" gamers exactly where they want them, and that place is going to be nowhere good for gamers in the long run. But hey, who am I, throw down your cash for Port so you can have access to non-instanced housing before you understand the process. That is what we did, and that is how we got fucked! Some of the responses "seem" relatively reasonable to someone new to the forums. But come on Blake (Blackstone), you know you're saying this due to vested interest: "Not owning a property doesn't equal not having a place to live. There will be plenty of different types of obtainable housing in SotA for all players." Owning a POT and renting to players is the goal of these guys, making money off others. But back when Tarsilion and I were suggesting such a thing, you better believe we were hammered in the forums for even beginning to suggest players having other options than owning a house. This was long, long before even the hint of a POT was dropped out of the blue, for the same type of game mechanic. Sucking off other players. But the gall of these folks to think someone would buy a game just to rent from a whale, not own their own, and let the whale make money off them, is just messed up. Seriously.
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Aug 6, 2015 2:49:24 GMT
Not only that, but renting affords them an avenue for more income, thereby affording them the opportunity for additional housing. I see no avenue for the lone wolf in this game. There are clusters of power that have already developed based solely on the money spent backing the game, aside from the ungodly amount of influence these 100 people have had over a game backed by 55,000.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 6, 2015 3:05:18 GMT
Not only that, but renting affords them an avenue for more income, thereby affording them the opportunity for additional housing. I see no avenue for the lone wolf in this game. There are clusters of power that have already developed based solely on the money spent backing the game, aside from the ungodly amount of influence these 100 people have had over a game backed by 55,000. I've been with you on that for some time www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/sota-civil-rights-and-lone-wolves-act-of-2013.1431/
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 6, 2015 3:52:37 GMT
I didn't join the forums until December 2013 even though I pledged in March that year. I don't think I ever really saw your posts. I can see the beginning of divisions even in that post, with those who liked and didn't like, depending on who was talking.
I miss BillRoy a lot. He was one of my confidants and he was an extremely wise person, imo. He sold his account.
That ass muncher Stile, saying simple solution, join a guild that's not a guild. What kind of ridiculous solution was that? lol
And Lum, what a lying ass. "So, I look on kickstarters/backers as our publisher." No Lum, you do not. You look at the ones who gave Port thousands of dollars as your publisher. Not anything below a certain level of backing, to be sure.
You had good points IM, ones that were never listened to, and the divide has grown even worse/greater.
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Aug 6, 2015 4:54:02 GMT
Wow, such a measured IM back then. It goes to show those that would say this is a den of people out to throw bile on the game that we all started with a similar attitude toward the developers. If not100% on board, we were willing to accept that the game wasn't being made around our singular idea of what the game should be. It's unfortunate it came to the point where many were ostracized from the community.
Worst part about that thread is the needy guild members and leaders trying to sell you on joining when you statemultiple times you are not joining a guild. It's the equivalent of spamming guild recruiting at Brit Bank.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 6, 2015 8:17:46 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 6, 2015 15:07:34 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 6, 2015 15:12:54 GMT
So what do you think should happen in order to get a house? Just curious.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 7, 2015 2:24:45 GMT
To get a house? Simple in game cash buy. To get a lot however, that is the prob. Port said from the beginning not everyone would be able to own a plot thus a house, so, just let the chips fall.
No online store buys, no guild gives, no cash feeding.
How that gets done? Well, to quote the king: "I'm not entirely sure"
You could go IRL. Show cash flow and savings over time to prevent gold feeding? To lay down a plot in an NPC town, maybe you have to gain nobility in that town by doing related quests? I mean they really did shoot themselves in the foot, to create "static houses" they put the entire fracking game into a bunch of small instances. :/
Genius.
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Aug 7, 2015 3:59:57 GMT
I wonder how much of that also has to do with insisting every in game world item be manipulatable. Having 200 houses with all manner of shit inside and outside has got to be demanding, no? Part of the appeal of UO to me was not the fact that I could move around every individual coin. Even still, if there is a trade off because of modern tech, I would gladly give up the ability to set a table for an afternoon tea party if meant I could explore a singular world I'd be all for it. Instead we have walls of impassable 2d cardboard cut put foliage, meanwhile on the forums people complain that the relative size of pets is immersion breaking.
Hell, I'll admit. I would have completely bought into the instances world if the instances 1) weren't so god damn small and 2) were explained in some way in the fiction of the game. Richard, you know what feels pretty lazy to me, chopping your game up into puzzle pieces and calling it a game world that's an homage to old school games. You didn't do it because of that. Admit you had limitations and you designed around them. There's nothing lazier than recycling ideas from the past. But no, he has no humility. 'I made this garbage pile only because I make cool shit and have great ideas not because I'm limited in team, talent, and funding and this is all I can afford to make.'
I imagine it might have been cool, if there have to be instances, for avatars to hope between larger instances worlds, a sort of Avatar metaverse. At least that would explain the instances. Maybe the moongates were all fucked up and the world broken apart. Here, its just sloppily chopping up a map. There is no lazier possibility than what they've done. Zone entances and exits. Blarg.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 7, 2015 5:51:41 GMT
Right, and the towns aren't even unique, a few of them are cloned. They say they're place holders. But they put less time into those placeholders than POTs if you asked me.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 7, 2015 8:16:44 GMT
Right, and the towns aren't even unique, a few of them are cloned. They say they're place holders. But they put less time into those placeholders than POTs if you asked me. Its pre-alpha, jesus, back off. Lulz, NOT. The months are ticking away very quickly after declaring this pre-alpha phase was pretty much over...
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Aug 7, 2015 10:35:17 GMT
When I was playing, the towns had no personality. In UO, as in other games, towns felt distinct not solely because there was a different road configurationbut because entering them you got a sense of what the people were like that lived there. The towns attracted people to them that really jived with that scene. The music, architecture, everything brought you into a world.
Here, nope, just defecate out some tudor style buildings and pay some sap to make some garbage music tracks. Boom! World created.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 7, 2015 15:41:22 GMT
Maybe if the designers actually looked at real European cities, rather than ugly Texas/American cities, they might have come up with some decent layouts. I'm American and grew up in the US, but I love Europe. I've lived there for a year, and am in the process of moving there again.
And if Braemar wasn't some dank, dark and depressing town, people might want to live there. People only got plots there because it was initially one of the main hubs in the game. Now it's not, and when I checked last Saturday evening, there were still a lot of plots available 3 full days after game release.
A lot of thought should go into the design of public towns and cities. They should outshine POTs, otherwise the world looks pretty terrible.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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Post by Caliya on Aug 7, 2015 15:43:12 GMT
Right, and the towns aren't even unique, a few of them are cloned. They say they're place holders. But they put less time into those placeholders than POTs if you asked me. Its pre-alpha, jesus, back off. Lulz, NOT. The months are ticking away very quickly after declaring this pre-alpha phase was pretty much over... lol Pre-alpha my ass
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Aug 7, 2015 15:47:17 GMT
Maybe if the designers actually looked at real European cities, rather than ugly Texas/American cities, they might have come up with some decent layouts. I'm American and grew up in the US, but I love Europe. I've lived there for a year, and am in the process of moving there again. And if Braemar wasn't some dank, dark and depressing town, people might want to live there. People only got plots there because it was initially one of the main hubs in the game. Now it's not, and when I checked last Saturday evening, there were still a lot of plots available 3 full days after game release. A lot of thought should go into the design of public towns and cities. They should outshine POTs, otherwise the world looks pretty terrible. What are you talking about? Whales droped 10s of thousands of dollars on POTs while nobody PAID for the NPC cities or tow--- Oh wait a second....
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 5, 2016 3:33:52 GMT
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Feb 5, 2016 3:51:50 GMT
So......... I guess economy balance testing is completely destroyed until the next wipe by infusing 55,000,000 gold into the economy destroying any potential economic data that could have been gleaned from monitoring the economy over r26, r27, and r28?
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 5, 2016 3:56:41 GMT
Hell some of that was probably given to them from the devs to increase BMC turnout and street cred, who knows /tinfoil
But your as can be sure that the majority of the money is coming from exploitation.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 5, 2016 4:01:21 GMT
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Post by zincturtle on Feb 5, 2016 4:42:44 GMT
Go go BMC. Exploit early, exploit often. (yes, yes, I know, "testing")
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