Post by nemolives on Jun 25, 2017 15:28:08 GMT
As many of you know, this sub-reddit was set up because the moderation of the /r/shroudoftheavatar sub had disastrously collapsed recently; part of this is because of a years long campaign of deliberate manipulation by defenders of the game to lie, cheat and slander people critical of the game.
Last night I listed just a few recent examples of this over at ShroudUnlimited. It's staggering how blatantly obvious you can be in your dishonesty and still be taken seriously because people can't or won't apply basic standards to either evidence or their own analytical skills.
Notice I link in that thread there to a thread back at Reddit which earned me a temporary ban; a thread where I respond brusquely once to someone who refuses to even notice the title of said thread..
Count the deliberate deceptions in that thread alone, including the unbelievably dishonest MrAdventur3 who attempts once more to warp what I'm actually saying out of sheer personal animus. It's unmoderated, as always. Ridiculous and blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain as it was, the manipulation of moderation is obviously fully successful.
Whilst typing it up though, I was butting heads with AdamZax still in PM, who had sent this astoundingly dishonest image trying to prove that despite paragraph after paragraph of the original post stating the opposite, and his even agreeing with someone else that my actual point was valid, if however you remove lines like "Whether someone later on can pick up that house without RMTing does not change the fact that", then I'm actually arguing that you can't do exactly that after all. After which I told him what he could do with such selective editing, I blocked him and went to bed.
I came back online today, and start catching up with my reading, to find this thread.. And there at the bottom we see our wonderful chum back again on yet another sockpuppet. Could it be any more blatant, do you think?
He brags he's manipulating the reporting rules in the user name. He makes a claim, false as it turns out, that the OP is me. Something supposedly now banned. He brags he got me the temporary ban. He indulges in personal abuse.
And now let's talk about the mechanism by which you can totally break a sub-reddit when you have a terrible moderator who also holds personal grudges; he goes on to openly state how he's doing it by listing things such as bulletin points as well as bad English (obviously fake!) and good English (the real you!) and well... anything he can think of at all to try and discredit a user at all.
It's not like he doesn't have a long, long history of this. Remember when he posted an image where he tried to claim someone had leaked him a picture of rune_74 logging into all the accounts of people on that sub, except he'd mis-spelled the false account names? And it made no sense that the only person who would see that screen would be the one actually doing it?
But if you're a complete idiot you might fall for such such things.
Which is why when the new rules from Digibond came in, I PMd him to explain why they were so easily exploitable; Here's the full PM chain.
Now read the former sticky again that turned up very shortly after those PMs.
Does my public response make sense now? Instead of dealing with the issues I raised in PM, the moderator ran off to throw a public sulk, with plenty of hidden insults directed towards me he had to know I'd pick up on.
Hilariously, the person I actually named as a potential replacement I'd literally blocked the night before for being so unable to see past his own personal bias you couldn't get him to understand he was deliberately warping my argument even if you used remedial English. But yup, that's just part of my conspiracy to... what? Get digibond to turn over the sub to someone who I now think is a dick?
Why can't we even have any common sense in moderation?
I even openly repeated in the former sticky what I said in PM...
And I told you that you either can't or won't remove people, so those of us who "rage" have simply given up on believing the rules apply. You couldn't remove us even if you wanted too.
Now... if I'd wanted to prove that, would I have really have made up a new account, and also faked my IP address. Especially after telling you it will never have changed? Wouldn't it have been a more powerful statement to prove how easy it was to run sockpuppets by linking it directly to my main account in a verifiable way by not using a Proxy?
And then the rules got clarified in this current Sticky: Notice again further down I list all the ways these rules can be manipulated; but that even this sticky has a tonne of deleted posts, including the one that shows that Digibond fell for the tactics already discussed, and deleted and banned papajoker.
So with all of that in mind, back we go to Jammaplaya openly laughing about bragging about doing all of these things. I report that post with a title of "Told you so" and angrily list all the things I had already said, openly and privately, he was going to do.
And at best the only reason Jamma knows I was on a temp ban was because he got one too... whilst AdamZax, MrAdventur3, and someone having a literal rage filled break down in the same thread, Smeagol_Complex was left untouched. And at worst, considering the smears you never apologised for, well... is it any wonder I don't trust your moderation?
And the response?
Did you spot it readers in the Greed Monger link?
Here it is again. Yes, within a minute, digibond deleted that thread because he presumably thinks it's one of my sockpuppets. Whilst the ReportEdd comment is still up. Despite it explaining exactly how he's generating false reports. Despite false reports being supposedly bannable.
Thus proving if you really can get lazy or just plain useless moderators to be so utterly confused by campaigns of harassment you can basically control the forum Well done digibond, you deleted the thread of a newbie, who might be a sockpuppet of someone else I don't know, but it certainly wasn't me: who didn't really break any rules because even the only sensible person said he had a point...
Did he ban papajoker on the same stupid assumption that I was what, drawing attention to my own sock puppet to try and insulate it? That I was secretly papajoker?
And when I immediately wrote back and said the equivalent of "WTF do you not even read the reports? How is that guy to blame for a report on yet another sockpuppet" gave me a permanent ban from the sub he's too incompetent to moderate.
And all of this is so easily avoided if you just actually held people to the community standards and ban accounts outright if they don't follow those standards.
Jamma? Gone permanently every time he loses control again. Debate standards? Up because you'd catch those like MrAdventur3 who lie about everything and drag it down. Everyone else... less "raging" because they aren't watching the moderation effectively hand the sub over to the people doing it.
What we instead got was a paranoid, insecure moderator and a gaslighting sack of shit community that knows they don't ever have to answer to their own behaviour as long as they keep hammering the Report button and relying upon his inability to remember names or past antics.
Now watch as they gloat about this supposed victory over me... except it's only a victory if I genuinely am better than Shroud's vile community. Even when they win though, they lose, because should I turn the analogy into a fact, and get myself a TOR tunnel and alt-account the shit out of the sub-reddit do you think? They struggle apparently even with analogies; they can't even tell when someone is trolling them; how long would their victory last if I actually did what was only an explanation of how vile they actually were?
Shall I reduce myself down to their level, do you think?
But no, I won't. And I never did. But you'll never know because they're too toxic, hate filled and even the people supposedly open mindedly running the sub are too fucking stupid to see what's right in front of their noses; And now they've thrown another sub away by not being able to filter out the sociopaths.
We're ALL Jammaplayas now. Even when we're not there at all. Well done digibond, oh so well done.
Last night I listed just a few recent examples of this over at ShroudUnlimited. It's staggering how blatantly obvious you can be in your dishonesty and still be taken seriously because people can't or won't apply basic standards to either evidence or their own analytical skills.
Notice I link in that thread there to a thread back at Reddit which earned me a temporary ban; a thread where I respond brusquely once to someone who refuses to even notice the title of said thread..
Count the deliberate deceptions in that thread alone, including the unbelievably dishonest MrAdventur3 who attempts once more to warp what I'm actually saying out of sheer personal animus. It's unmoderated, as always. Ridiculous and blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain as it was, the manipulation of moderation is obviously fully successful.
Whilst typing it up though, I was butting heads with AdamZax still in PM, who had sent this astoundingly dishonest image trying to prove that despite paragraph after paragraph of the original post stating the opposite, and his even agreeing with someone else that my actual point was valid, if however you remove lines like "Whether someone later on can pick up that house without RMTing does not change the fact that", then I'm actually arguing that you can't do exactly that after all. After which I told him what he could do with such selective editing, I blocked him and went to bed.
I came back online today, and start catching up with my reading, to find this thread.. And there at the bottom we see our wonderful chum back again on yet another sockpuppet. Could it be any more blatant, do you think?
He brags he's manipulating the reporting rules in the user name. He makes a claim, false as it turns out, that the OP is me. Something supposedly now banned. He brags he got me the temporary ban. He indulges in personal abuse.
And now let's talk about the mechanism by which you can totally break a sub-reddit when you have a terrible moderator who also holds personal grudges; he goes on to openly state how he's doing it by listing things such as bulletin points as well as bad English (obviously fake!) and good English (the real you!) and well... anything he can think of at all to try and discredit a user at all.
It's not like he doesn't have a long, long history of this. Remember when he posted an image where he tried to claim someone had leaked him a picture of rune_74 logging into all the accounts of people on that sub, except he'd mis-spelled the false account names? And it made no sense that the only person who would see that screen would be the one actually doing it?
But if you're a complete idiot you might fall for such such things.
Which is why when the new rules from Digibond came in, I PMd him to explain why they were so easily exploitable; Here's the full PM chain.
Commander_Titler:
So I notice you've put in place a filter auto-modding any of my posts that include a number of usernames; But apparently you can't remove the multiple sock puppet accounts they troll these forums on?
Are you just responding to reports you get, and not reading your own Reddit to see what's actually happening?
And dare I ask if you actually applied the same rules equally and removed MrAdventur3's own ability to name others? Surely you at least click "Context" to see how he's only reporting comments that repeat his own behaviour back to him?
And as you're apparently unable to stop only certain kinds of posts, how do you expect us to talk about what's bound to happen when the next flood of obvious sockpuppets arrive and repeat the behaviour?
So I notice you've put in place a filter auto-modding any of my posts that include a number of usernames; But apparently you can't remove the multiple sock puppet accounts they troll these forums on?
Are you just responding to reports you get, and not reading your own Reddit to see what's actually happening?
And dare I ask if you actually applied the same rules equally and removed MrAdventur3's own ability to name others? Surely you at least click "Context" to see how he's only reporting comments that repeat his own behaviour back to him?
And as you're apparently unable to stop only certain kinds of posts, how do you expect us to talk about what's bound to happen when the next flood of obvious sockpuppets arrive and repeat the behaviour?
[–]from digibond sent 18 days ago
Dude I got tired of seeing "Jammaplaya" accusations in every other thread so I filtered it across the board. A long time ago. It's not just a filter on your account.
And no, I'm not spending hours every day keeping up with sota drama, I'm pretty much over it. I have other things in life to tend to that are much more important right now.
Dude I got tired of seeing "Jammaplaya" accusations in every other thread so I filtered it across the board. A long time ago. It's not just a filter on your account.
And no, I'm not spending hours every day keeping up with sota drama, I'm pretty much over it. I have other things in life to tend to that are much more important right now.
[–]to digibond sent 18 days ago
Then find someone who you trust who can take over from you. Because for a long time it's been a complete shit show of harassment and abuse which is only getting moderated in the favour of those prepared to try and manipulate the reporting system.
And my life isn't being made any better either by the blind eye being turned to it by both Portalarium and this Reddit... whilst my email was hacked, (part deleted because the person is no longer in my life, and I don't want to give any more helpful suggestions to the sociopath Jamma) I never brought that up because I wanted to protect (x), and collect more evidence that it was actually him...
But by not banning the accounts here you're allowing that level of toxicity and I'm sick to the death of having to keep taking it because there's not effective moderation. Maybe the situation in your life is equally fucked up right now, but you owe it to everyone else here to pass the torch if dealing with this is too much for you.
Maybe AdamZax if you want a positive but unbiased poster. (I since of course WOULDN'T recommend him. Fucking cherry picking) Maybe someone else. I don't know who, but I'm absolutely fucking sick and tired of having constantly keep having to deal with people who are blatantly taking things beyond all decency and seeing them get away with it time and time again.
Then find someone who you trust who can take over from you. Because for a long time it's been a complete shit show of harassment and abuse which is only getting moderated in the favour of those prepared to try and manipulate the reporting system.
And my life isn't being made any better either by the blind eye being turned to it by both Portalarium and this Reddit... whilst my email was hacked, (part deleted because the person is no longer in my life, and I don't want to give any more helpful suggestions to the sociopath Jamma) I never brought that up because I wanted to protect (x), and collect more evidence that it was actually him...
But by not banning the accounts here you're allowing that level of toxicity and I'm sick to the death of having to keep taking it because there's not effective moderation. Maybe the situation in your life is equally fucked up right now, but you owe it to everyone else here to pass the torch if dealing with this is too much for you.
Maybe AdamZax if you want a positive but unbiased poster. (I since of course WOULDN'T recommend him. Fucking cherry picking) Maybe someone else. I don't know who, but I'm absolutely fucking sick and tired of having constantly keep having to deal with people who are blatantly taking things beyond all decency and seeing them get away with it time and time again.
[–]from digibond sent 18 days ago
I've seen posts from you breaking rules just as often as many others... Namecalling, raging, etc. And yet while I have banned plenty of accounts, I haven't taken permanent action against yours.
Honestly, I think it's time for you to move on and put this sub behind you. I'd encourage you to do the same with the game itself, but that's your business.
I've seen posts from you breaking rules just as often as many others... Namecalling, raging, etc. And yet while I have banned plenty of accounts, I haven't taken permanent action against yours.
Honestly, I think it's time for you to move on and put this sub behind you. I'd encourage you to do the same with the game itself, but that's your business.
[–]to digibond sent 18 days ago
Yeah because people no longer give a shit about a sub that clearly isn't able to be moderated successfully; Do you know what the saddest thing about all of this is? You wouldn't be able to make me move on even if you wanted too, because your inability to prevent the endless Jamma alts that keep turning up have taught everyone watching exactly how he's getting around your standard of moderation... without someone actively engaged watching this Reddit, every one else could do exactly the same as him too. And they know it, and have lost any hope of decency.
But don't blame me for raging when I've sat back and watched the personal lives of rune and myself dragged through the mud not just on the forums but here too. I've been fighting off constant real life harassment since December, and I still haven't been able to confirm for sure that he didn't do to me what Keza claims he did to him, (again, details deleted because the evil fuck doesn't need helping in trying to hurt people), I don't know, Microsoft are useless and they won't say if they can track email traffic on my account at the time, and the Police never told me how far they got with their investigation... but that's the kind of evil shit we're dealing with.
So yeah, I rage now.
And no, I WONT move on until I either I see some form of attempt to clean up their community, or an actual attempt to redress all the bullshit I've been put through just because I criticize a computer game.
And why should I? And do you think the attacks on me will stop even if did walk away? When I fed a false line to one account here about being away in hospital, they in fact became more intense assuming I wouldn't be at my keyboard to defend against them. And if it stopped being directed at me on Reddit, because I wasn't there, it would just shift target. The current target is papajoker. Look how many times the latest sockpuppet goes for him...
(papajoker has since, of course, been banned from that sub because of that focus. Well done digibond, oh so well done...)
But if my rage can warn people about what they're really facing ... then I stay. And I fight. If you don't want a sub like that, pass the torch or start moderating properly, because everything else just leaves it open for evil and manipulative shits to wreck it. Just like they're doing right here and now.
Yeah because people no longer give a shit about a sub that clearly isn't able to be moderated successfully; Do you know what the saddest thing about all of this is? You wouldn't be able to make me move on even if you wanted too, because your inability to prevent the endless Jamma alts that keep turning up have taught everyone watching exactly how he's getting around your standard of moderation... without someone actively engaged watching this Reddit, every one else could do exactly the same as him too. And they know it, and have lost any hope of decency.
But don't blame me for raging when I've sat back and watched the personal lives of rune and myself dragged through the mud not just on the forums but here too. I've been fighting off constant real life harassment since December, and I still haven't been able to confirm for sure that he didn't do to me what Keza claims he did to him, (again, details deleted because the evil fuck doesn't need helping in trying to hurt people), I don't know, Microsoft are useless and they won't say if they can track email traffic on my account at the time, and the Police never told me how far they got with their investigation... but that's the kind of evil shit we're dealing with.
So yeah, I rage now.
And no, I WONT move on until I either I see some form of attempt to clean up their community, or an actual attempt to redress all the bullshit I've been put through just because I criticize a computer game.
And why should I? And do you think the attacks on me will stop even if did walk away? When I fed a false line to one account here about being away in hospital, they in fact became more intense assuming I wouldn't be at my keyboard to defend against them. And if it stopped being directed at me on Reddit, because I wasn't there, it would just shift target. The current target is papajoker. Look how many times the latest sockpuppet goes for him...
(papajoker has since, of course, been banned from that sub because of that focus. Well done digibond, oh so well done...)
But if my rage can warn people about what they're really facing ... then I stay. And I fight. If you don't want a sub like that, pass the torch or start moderating properly, because everything else just leaves it open for evil and manipulative shits to wreck it. Just like they're doing right here and now.
Does my public response make sense now? Instead of dealing with the issues I raised in PM, the moderator ran off to throw a public sulk, with plenty of hidden insults directed towards me he had to know I'd pick up on.
Hilariously, the person I actually named as a potential replacement I'd literally blocked the night before for being so unable to see past his own personal bias you couldn't get him to understand he was deliberately warping my argument even if you used remedial English. But yup, that's just part of my conspiracy to... what? Get digibond to turn over the sub to someone who I now think is a dick?
Why can't we even have any common sense in moderation?
I even openly repeated in the former sticky what I said in PM...
And I told you that you either can't or won't remove people, so those of us who "rage" have simply given up on believing the rules apply. You couldn't remove us even if you wanted too.
Now... if I'd wanted to prove that, would I have really have made up a new account, and also faked my IP address. Especially after telling you it will never have changed? Wouldn't it have been a more powerful statement to prove how easy it was to run sockpuppets by linking it directly to my main account in a verifiable way by not using a Proxy?
And then the rules got clarified in this current Sticky: Notice again further down I list all the ways these rules can be manipulated; but that even this sticky has a tonne of deleted posts, including the one that shows that Digibond fell for the tactics already discussed, and deleted and banned papajoker.
So with all of that in mind, back we go to Jammaplaya openly laughing about bragging about doing all of these things. I report that post with a title of "Told you so" and angrily list all the things I had already said, openly and privately, he was going to do.
And at best the only reason Jamma knows I was on a temp ban was because he got one too... whilst AdamZax, MrAdventur3, and someone having a literal rage filled break down in the same thread, Smeagol_Complex was left untouched. And at worst, considering the smears you never apologised for, well... is it any wonder I don't trust your moderation?
And the response?
Did you spot it readers in the Greed Monger link?
Here it is again. Yes, within a minute, digibond deleted that thread because he presumably thinks it's one of my sockpuppets. Whilst the ReportEdd comment is still up. Despite it explaining exactly how he's generating false reports. Despite false reports being supposedly bannable.
Thus proving if you really can get lazy or just plain useless moderators to be so utterly confused by campaigns of harassment you can basically control the forum Well done digibond, you deleted the thread of a newbie, who might be a sockpuppet of someone else I don't know, but it certainly wasn't me: who didn't really break any rules because even the only sensible person said he had a point...
Did he ban papajoker on the same stupid assumption that I was what, drawing attention to my own sock puppet to try and insulate it? That I was secretly papajoker?
And when I immediately wrote back and said the equivalent of "WTF do you not even read the reports? How is that guy to blame for a report on yet another sockpuppet" gave me a permanent ban from the sub he's too incompetent to moderate.
And all of this is so easily avoided if you just actually held people to the community standards and ban accounts outright if they don't follow those standards.
Jamma? Gone permanently every time he loses control again. Debate standards? Up because you'd catch those like MrAdventur3 who lie about everything and drag it down. Everyone else... less "raging" because they aren't watching the moderation effectively hand the sub over to the people doing it.
What we instead got was a paranoid, insecure moderator and a gaslighting sack of shit community that knows they don't ever have to answer to their own behaviour as long as they keep hammering the Report button and relying upon his inability to remember names or past antics.
Now watch as they gloat about this supposed victory over me... except it's only a victory if I genuinely am better than Shroud's vile community. Even when they win though, they lose, because should I turn the analogy into a fact, and get myself a TOR tunnel and alt-account the shit out of the sub-reddit do you think? They struggle apparently even with analogies; they can't even tell when someone is trolling them; how long would their victory last if I actually did what was only an explanation of how vile they actually were?
Shall I reduce myself down to their level, do you think?
But no, I won't. And I never did. But you'll never know because they're too toxic, hate filled and even the people supposedly open mindedly running the sub are too fucking stupid to see what's right in front of their noses; And now they've thrown another sub away by not being able to filter out the sociopaths.
We're ALL Jammaplayas now. Even when we're not there at all. Well done digibond, oh so well done.