Joviex
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Post by Joviex on Jun 7, 2016 20:43:48 GMT
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=694714097When green lit, I am sure this game does better than SOTA, for a simple reason of production. These guys, with like zero experience, made a better production than a team of "seasoned" people. The fact is, the "seasoned" people are from a publishing time that no longer exists -- i.e. someone else will do this for me. They never learned, nor seem to care how to learn, to be good to their community. They never evolved with other game designers in the last decade. C'est la vie!
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Post by fossil on Jun 8, 2016 3:07:01 GMT
It's already a pretty solid base game, funny part is I gave input to Supreem sometime ago about a change in IRC. He promptly made the change and did the check while I was online to help with it. They've done it on little to no money and fewer people.
They cared about the game and not about making money, people take notice in things like this. I think it will go over well on Green Lit for them.
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Caliya
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Post by Caliya on Jun 8, 2016 8:33:38 GMT
These guys, with like zero experience, made a better production than a team of "seasoned" people. Can you explain? Because the very opening sentence is they were the lead developers of UO... |
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Joviex
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Post by Joviex on Jun 8, 2016 9:15:36 GMT
These guys, with like zero experience, made a better production than a team of "seasoned" people. Can you explain? Because the very opening sentence is they were the lead developers of UO... Publishing. This entire problem is production (for SOTA). Seasoned producers who couldnt produce or publish their way out of a paper bag wet with the tears of a thousand overweight whales. You got two groups of developers for these games: The Designers/Producers who went on to make Shroud The people who did the actual day to day implementation, who went to make Shards. Looking from the outside, one would think, the "executive producers" would have more experience in actually PRODUCING something. Here we see the sad facts. R.G. was never a good producer. Nor any one with him over there. His entire argument about how bad publishers are, how mean, so mean, MEAN MEAN MEAN..... is true, to a point, that point was about 2 years ago when he proved, to me, a person with 1/4th the "production experience" that he didnt know how to produce jack nor shit. Darkjob included. They are salesmen. Salesmen are not producers, they are the kind of producers who get "executive producer" credit cause they put in money, or owned the IP, etc... and give actual production artists a bad name. It was literally the very first post I made on that forum. I said nothing for 2 months. First post? Hey, can we get a production breakdown a little? Answer? Queue to the year upon year upon year... this is pre-alpha.... Yes, assclowns, pre-alpha, the time and place when you make schedules and breakdowns of the actual design document <------- And here, folks, we have a break down. Why do I even care anymore? Cause it is obviously still something that is near and dear and really shitty how they ran it. ah well, I eagerly await the release of whatever design documentation they promised in the KS:  That should be super interesting to read. |
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dodgy
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Post by dodgy on Jun 8, 2016 11:33:23 GMT
Shroud of the Avatar = Greed Monger
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Jun 9, 2016 2:42:07 GMT
These guys, with like zero experience, made a better production than a team of "seasoned" people. Can you explain? Because the very opening sentence is they were the lead developers of UO... The lead designer of UO was Designer Dragon - Raph Koster. At least the launch version and shortly after that. It's possible someone from their team was a lead after that, but Raph was the dude. He also went on to lead Star Wars: Galaxies. He now does consulting (one if his clients is the team making Crowfall) |
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Caliya
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People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Jun 9, 2016 10:10:15 GMT
Thanks for your response, Joviex, makes total sense. Thanks for explaining. I was LOL at this ... Seasoned producers who couldnt produce or publish their way out of a paper bag wet with the tears of a thousand overweight whale  |
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Caliya
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People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
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Post by Caliya on Jun 9, 2016 10:11:57 GMT
It does make me wonder, why the hell didn't we know all this when we originally invested? Man, if we'd known these kind of details, we never would have. We'd have waited for Shards Online or something else. I'm not too jazzed about Crowfall.
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dodgy
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Post by dodgy on Jun 9, 2016 10:13:37 GMT
It does make me wonder, why the hell didn't we know all this when we originally invested? Man, if we'd known these kind of details, we never would have. We'd have waited for Shards Online or something else. I'm not too jazzed about Crowfall. Now we do though! |
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Post by Mordecai on Jun 9, 2016 13:38:38 GMT
I think we were all a lot more ignorant back then, when SotA was announced. We were starry-eyed retro gamers that allowed our consumer skepticism to be shadowed by nostalgia.
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titsup
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Post by titsup on Jun 9, 2016 23:42:26 GMT
It does make me wonder, why the hell didn't we know all this when we originally invested? Man, if we'd known these kind of details, we never would have. We'd have waited for Shards Online or something else. I'm not too jazzed about Crowfall. I'll be honest and say I did know all this and still backed at around $800. Nostalgia can be intoxicating and my days in UO were some of my fondest memories of gaming. I crave great gaming experiences and the promise of that based on an appeal to my memories of 20 years ago easily lured me in. They never had to create a new UO for me to be happy, simply something that gave me the same feelings I had when I played UO. Eventually I realized that my motivation for backing was foolish. My enjoyment of games comes from the design of the games themselves. Make UO2 and it'll likely bounce right off me now. I loved UO because it was a new, intriguing experience. Ultimately, that's what I want. Bringing back the past for me is trying to recapture a feeling I had then and I was a very different person then. 20 years on and I'm not the only thing that's changed. Games have changed and so has gaming culture and demographics. Technology and design theory. Everything has evolved. Shroud of the Avatar is a great reflection of what misguided nostalgia, in the cases of both fans and developers, can provide as a result. A clunky, poorly designed, directionless, soulless, incoherent, uninspired monstrosity masquerading as the return of a golden age that probably didn't exist in the first place. |
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Post by myrcello on Jun 10, 2016 8:57:00 GMT
We can all blame it to the Reminiscence Bump
We all played UO or a Ultima Game during a sensitive time of change this letting it become a part of our identity.
It had been become part of a positive one we are easy to recall.
It is easy to spend money and invest into something that is part of our own identity.
...Myrcello leaves and starts to ponder ....there is no spoon
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Post by myrcello on Jun 10, 2016 9:52:37 GMT
Or can we blame our pre evolution primal animal leftovers still within us....
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Post by myrcello on Jun 10, 2016 10:15:20 GMT
And i am back in the Hunger Games - trying to kill and be the last man standing - evoking my basic instinct behaving still within me....
I must survive
He plays just insane good:
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Post by nemolives on Jun 11, 2016 14:45:51 GMT
A very large part of it was nostalgia for me, it's true; but I also thought I had some recent experience which supported taking the risk... I'd early purchased Kerbal Space Program and Minecraft, two games where the devs really listened to intelligent feedback and used it to develop superior products over time. And I'd been heavily involved in modding for Dawn of War, where Relic again were highly supportive of their community. So I honestly thought Lord British, another developer I admired, would have a similar approach. And I assumed he, like me if I were in a similar situation, would throw his own personal money behind ensuring his work of art and design succeeded. I suppose I should have stopped and asked "Then why does he need our money in the first place?" but I just assumed he wanted proof of support, and perhaps reasonably wanted to not spend millions if he didn't have too, but instead it went for shared seed money.
I don't know then how much he's personally invested; I do believe that the actual development team have thrown their time and efforts in to an impressive degree. But they don't listen to the constructive criticism, it's like they're so deeply invested in it being "their" game (and those they feel are on their side) that they're incapable recognising the hole they have dug themselves into. What drove me away was the fact that time and time again people would say "this is terrible", but because the metric of Whale spending didn't seem to change, they'd not change course, or actually double down on what made it worse. I never expected such talented people who'd given me such pleasure in the past to have such feet of clay. They might have got away with that if they could bring in outside talent, but they've haemorrhaged money apparently too, to the point we now have Premium Currency in game. And despite listing all the people they say they have working on all these amazing things... none of them ever turned up in game. They're a few weeks from the final launch, and the starting zone questions are STILL a blatant Ultima rip off.
That's what I hadn't banked on. Is it the wrong choice of game engine, do you think? Is it possible they made a mistake with something that couldn't possibly support their ideas (or they couldn't program them in themselves) and rather than admit it, they just kept going deeper and deeper into the denial? Internal conflict maybe? There has to be some reason that, after so much time, with all the money they've raised and are personally sitting on, they just can't produce the touching work of art most of us were hoping for.
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calico
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Post by calico on Jun 15, 2016 19:39:10 GMT
Hmmm, I wonder if I need to check shards online...I think I could offer some good ideas if it isn't just a pvp game...
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