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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 8, 2016 16:33:18 GMT
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Post by zincturtle on Feb 8, 2016 16:46:39 GMT
No you are looking at it wrong, this stuff has NEVER been done before, roll with it dude! Indeed. It's never been done this badly before. I've never seen a game outside of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes that does the simple things this badly. At this point, they should really just approach the current license holders of Allods to get a solid client/server tech, at least it's fast, has a small memory footprint, and works on any PC. (yeah, I know, mac/linux, yadda yadda) The choice of Unity was a mistake, if they don't have the in-house knowledge to make Unity dance like Sword Coast Legends has, in my opinion. These are simple scenes, compared to games like Skyrim, which of course, runs beautifully on all current $100-$200 cards, with vastly more action and complexity. A base world geometry, one global light (the sun), some rocks, a few trees, some terrible tree-walls (good lord, who thought that was a good idea, ever?) and you should have about 10-15% $100-$200 GPU load without actors. Use visibility & layout tricks so the client doesn't render the entire scene all the time, and you have >50% of the gpu load for animations, particle effects, multiple actors, shaders, fancy effects, shadows and so on. (which the user can turn off most of) Here's the problem though. If you get where you shouldn't (in a scene, up on a wall, etc), you find out the chilling truth: The entire scene is rendered, all the time. There is literally no distance culling, no visibility culling, no optimizations of any kind going on to prevent the client from rendering every angle of the entire scene, all the time. It's like someone didn't go to "digital art school" , and wrote all these scenes presuming everyone would have a $1200 video card. I mean, any plebe who's ever tried to build their own TF2 level/map runs into these problems in the first few hours. Why is my FPS single digit, when I've got nothing but a skybox and a floor? Oh right, I'm rendering 4 cubic kilometers of empty space, my bad. Let me chop up this scene a bit with visblockers. And thus the painful lessons of learning begin. Ok, true, this isn't TF2, but all the same rules apply, regardless of the rendering engine. The more crap you add, the more load you put on the GPU, but if you're not designing your maps, from the start, with distance/visibility culling, you're gonna have a bad time. And by not exposing things like hard rendering cutoffs, or adjustable distances for interactive items, grass, ground-cover, and so on (because omg, you can't let the player SEE those harvestables if you let them remove the grass!!!) it just makes situations like this show them up to be the amateurs they really are: Right now, in any scene with over 100m of direct visibility, the distance limit on grass rendering is SMALLER than the distance limit on interactive item rendering. That means, when you're farther away from the interactive object, you can see it clearly, because there's no grass rendered around it. /golfclap Bravo, tech wizards, bravo. You're officially demonstrating your own ignorance, publicly. A realization just took hold. This project, to date, is like a public community content project using Unity. Ok, let's see, we can get all these ~free assets from the Unity store, Unity does everything for you, and is cross platform. Let's use that! Yeah! And we'll need a lobby to connect all the scenes, let's make an overworld map! Yeah! Do we need any C coders? Nah, Unity does it all. Do we need any C# devs? Nah, Unity does it all! It's a GUI, drag-n-drop MMO development! Yeah! All we need is a story, some vision, a whole bunch of designers, artists and heart! ( d'awwwww) ... that's what we've got. It's a lobby game with an overworld map to select your room/scene/dungeon, with selective visiblity of actors. That's it. That's the graphical and core features demonstrated in SotA to date. Pretty good for 3 years, right? Yeah! (No) Honestly, they would have been better off going the EQ1 route. Write your own engine, make it for Windows only, demonstrate everything innovative without prefabs (just use primitives) and then go for kickstarter funding. But that would require attracting at least one very VERY smart person to the project who's capable of doing 50%+ of the heavy lifting prior to a single artist, designer, story teller, or visionary joining the team. Almost like all those successful tech startups like Bioware (when they were still a tiny team in northern Canada) who produced astonishing games like NWN1 with a handful of people. Meh. My wife says I've exceeded my ranting quota for the day.
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 16:49:57 GMT
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 16:49:57 GMT
I can't read it here, what did they do?
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 16:59:38 GMT
Post by zincturtle on Feb 8, 2016 16:59:38 GMT
I can't read it here, what did they do? From Lum:
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 17:04:10 GMT
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 17:04:10 GMT
I can't read it here, what did they do? From Lum: Anyone could have seen those correnctions. Anyone notice that blood river scene and overland map look don't match?
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Post by fossil on Feb 8, 2016 17:22:10 GMT
No you are looking at it wrong, this stuff has NEVER been done before, roll with it dude! Indeed. It's never been done this badly before. I've never seen a game outside of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes that does the simple things this badly. At this point, they should really just approach the current license holders of Allods to get a solid client/server tech, at least it's fast, has a small memory footprint, and works on any PC. (yeah, I know, mac/linux, yadda yadda) The choice of Unity was a mistake, if they don't have the in-house knowledge to make Unity dance like Sword Coast Legends has, in my opinion. These are simple scenes, compared to games like Skyrim, which of course, runs beautifully on all current $100-$200 cards, with vastly more action and complexity. A base world geometry, one global light (the sun), some rocks, a few trees, some terrible tree-walls (good lord, who thought that was a good idea, ever?) and you should have about 10-15% $100-$200 GPU load without actors. Use visibility & layout tricks so the client doesn't render the entire scene all the time, and you have >50% of the gpu load for animations, particle effects, multiple actors, shaders, fancy effects, shadows and so on. (which the user can turn off most of) Here's the problem though. If you get where you shouldn't (in a scene, up on a wall, etc), you find out the chilling truth: The entire scene is rendered, all the time. There is literally no distance culling, no visibility culling, no optimizations of any kind going on to prevent the client from rendering every angle of the entire scene, all the time. It's like someone didn't go to "digital art school" , and wrote all these scenes presuming everyone would have a $1200 video card. I mean, any plebe who's ever tried to build their own TF2 level/map runs into these problems in the first few hours. Why is my FPS single digit, when I've got nothing but a skybox and a floor? Oh right, I'm rendering 4 cubic kilometers of empty space, my bad. Let me chop up this scene a bit with visblockers. And thus the painful lessons of learning begin. Ok, true, this isn't TF2, but all the same rules apply, regardless of the rendering engine. The more crap you add, the more load you put on the GPU, but if you're not designing your maps, from the start, with distance/visibility culling, you're gonna have a bad time. And by not exposing things like hard rendering cutoffs, or adjustable distances for interactive items, grass, ground-cover, and so on (because omg, you can't let the player SEE those harvestables if you let them remove the grass!!!) it just makes situations like this show them up to be the amateurs they really are: Right now, in any scene with over 100m of direct visibility, the distance limit on grass rendering is SMALLER than the distance limit on interactive item rendering. That means, when you're farther away from the interactive object, you can see it clearly, because there's no grass rendered around it. /golfclap Bravo, tech wizards, bravo. You're officially demonstrating your own ignorance, publicly. A realization just took hold. This project, to date, is like a public community content project using Unity. Ok, let's see, we can get all these ~free assets from the Unity store, Unity does everything for you, and is cross platform. Let's use that! Yeah! And we'll need a lobby to connect all the scenes, let's make an overworld map! Yeah! Do we need any C coders? Nah, Unity does it all. Do we need any C# devs? Nah, Unity does it all! It's a GUI, drag-n-drop MMO development! Yeah! All we need is a story, some vision, a whole bunch of designers, artists and heart! ( d'awwwww) ... that's what we've got. It's a lobby game with an overworld map to select your room/scene/dungeon, with selective visiblity of actors. That's it. That's the graphical and core features demonstrated in SotA to date. Pretty good for 3 years, right? Yeah! (No) Honestly, they would have been better off going the EQ1 route. Write your own engine, make it for Windows only, demonstrate everything innovative without prefabs (just use primitives) and then go for kickstarter funding. But that would require attracting at least one very VERY smart person to the project who's capable of doing 50%+ of the heavy lifting prior to a single artist, designer, story teller, or visionary joining the team. Almost like all those successful tech startups like Bioware (when they were still a tiny team in northern Canada) who produced astonishing games like NWN1 with a handful of people. Meh. My wife says I've exceeded my ranting quota for the day. Just let it all out. You'll feel better. There are still believers out there with hopes for this game. Even people with PvP aspirations, which is super lol. 5 months till launch, ROFL (insert Dewd Meme).
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Post by zincturtle on Feb 8, 2016 17:23:24 GMT
while (sota) { broken_promises = production_bugs + 1; }
Heheh.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 17:48:50 GMT
khael likes this
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 17:48:50 GMT
A key. lol That's major innovation
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 18:32:52 GMT
khael likes this
Post by zincturtle on Feb 8, 2016 18:32:52 GMT
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 18:48:32 GMT
via mobile
khael likes this
Post by fossil on Feb 8, 2016 18:48:32 GMT
Makes one wonder why for the release in 5 months. Wonder if they never officially release. Wonder if the government steps in on Kickstarter because there have been tons of scams not just in video games. Kickstarter is no better than Port, they are just greedy and don't care if projects actually get completed.
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 18:56:58 GMT
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 18:56:58 GMT
See, people need to put out a class action lawsuit for this to change.
HOwever, I would be hesitant to see that due to the face that there are some really good projects that comes out of it.
This launching end of july is not because they want more testers it is all about the money.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 20:45:55 GMT
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 20:45:55 GMT
This launching end of july is not because they want more testers it is all about the money. Ya, pretty much, let's get the money while we still can. Have you seen they put it on Steam for 50% off again? What pre-alpha does that? Further, they know by experience that it gets them a lot more bad reviews. My only conjecture is they want to make as much money as they can, regardless of reviews or people not playing it.
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 21:16:11 GMT
Caliya likes this
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 21:16:11 GMT
This launching end of july is not because they want more testers it is all about the money. Ya, pretty much, let's get the money while we still can. Have you seen they put it on Steam for 50% off again? What pre-alpha does that? Further, they know by experience that it gets them a lot more bad reviews. My only conjecture is they want to make as much money as they can, regardless of reviews or people not playing it. The move last year to a new "Cheaper" office was the first indication money was an issue. Now the accelerated release schedule is another. Throw in the Sale you just mentioned...well you get it.
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Post by zincturtle on Feb 8, 2016 21:36:22 GMT
Yeah, I was surprised, after being off the official forums for over 6 months, how drastically things had changed, activity-wise. There's maybe... a few dozen unique posters per day now. That's not healthy for a game 5 months from launch.
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Post by khael on Feb 8, 2016 21:40:15 GMT
Yeah, I was surprised, after being off the official forums for over 6 months, how drastically things had changed, activity-wise. There's maybe... a few dozen unique posters per day now. That's not healthy for a game 5 months from launch. the community as a whole are such assholes to anyone new that posts their problems with the game, they dont stick around long. i've watched them dog pile many people that were new and talked "negative" about shroud
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calico
Strong in the Force
Posts: 299
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 21:41:48 GMT
khael likes this
Post by calico on Feb 8, 2016 21:41:48 GMT
Yeah, I was surprised, after being off the official forums for over 6 months, how drastically things had changed, activity-wise. There's maybe... a few dozen unique posters per day now. That's not healthy for a game 5 months from launch. The forums were totally dead yesterday for instance, where I think there were only a few new posts? It doesn't help that the moderators close threads they don't have any interest in.
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 22:01:19 GMT
khael likes this
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 22:01:19 GMT
Yeah, I was surprised, after being off the official forums for over 6 months, how drastically things had changed, activity-wise. There's maybe... a few dozen unique posters per day now. That's not healthy for a game 5 months from launch. The forums were totally dead yesterday for instance, where I think there were only a few new posts? It doesn't help that the moderators close threads they don't have any interest in. It's been said that, for every thread that gets locked (for no good reason), you lose 100 customers. Keep it up Portalarium. Your forums will be a ghost town, just like the game.
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 22:05:21 GMT
Caliya likes this
Post by khael on Feb 8, 2016 22:05:21 GMT
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Caliya
Strong in the Force
People fight to gain things they can't take with them in the end
Posts: 2,121
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 22:19:07 GMT
khael likes this
Post by Caliya on Feb 8, 2016 22:19:07 GMT
Here's SmokerKGB telling it like it is, that early access BS excuse, and that most of them play SPO (then why the fuck do they need POTs?)
Not toxic at all over there!
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R26
Feb 8, 2016 22:25:11 GMT
Caliya likes this
Post by khael on Feb 8, 2016 22:25:11 GMT
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dodgy
Strong in the Force
Posts: 1,171
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R26
Feb 9, 2016 0:01:23 GMT
via mobile
titsup likes this
Post by dodgy on Feb 9, 2016 0:01:23 GMT
>says general chat is bad >has third party chat program
Nuff said
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R26
Feb 9, 2016 1:36:19 GMT
khael likes this
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 1:36:19 GMT
The only thing that surprises me here is that some whale fucktard hasn't come in with chat will break the "regional economies" yet.
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Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 1:38:32 GMT
Raise your hand if you think Weins is at heart a true cock sucker:
"Wow your second negative post :-("
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Post by dewderonomy on Feb 9, 2016 2:56:30 GMT
5 months till launch, ROFL (insert Dewd Meme). I got you fam. Raise your hand if you think Weins is at heart a true cock sucker
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R26
Feb 9, 2016 9:25:22 GMT
Post by Membrane_on_Vacation on Feb 9, 2016 9:25:22 GMT
Raise your hand if you think Weins is at heart a true cock sucker: "Wow your second negative post :-(" Ohhh, SNAP! Now I understand... "Weins as the Treasurer of the BMC"
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