STAR WARS: The Prequel Trilogy

Should you, let bare your shame

I saw an interview with JJ. who's directing the new ones. When they went and looked back at the last set of movies, they missed soo many marks that made the original ones so good. I fully expect these new ones to be exceptional. One of the main points was creating a new villain every movie instead of creating one that remained through the series. Which is one of the reason Darth Vader was so iconic, imagine if they would have killed him off in the first movie?

Yeah but that was edited poorly too

There is a whole fuckign chunk of jedi lore about all that stuff.  Same with that Grievous dude.

I completely disagree. There is almost zero tension in any of the prequel fight scenes because they are choreographed in such a way that they seem like dances, ones that aren't particularly exciting to watch. Sure, there's spinning and flipping and jumping and vwooom vwoooom, but no one is going to miss. No one fucks up, until Qui Gonn gets distracted (?!?).

They made them so completely invincible, so all powerful, they had no way to make them have a fault that would cause them to lose. As such, Qui Gonn just loses his focus and looks like a moron simply getting stabbed in the gut. Similarly, Darth Maul lets a completely vulnerable Obi Wan just jump right over his head, standing there like a dope just watching. "I've got the high ground now Anakin!" Anyway, he just stands there, like a fool, and again, Obi Wan dispatches him with ease.

When every opponents swing is countered by a block for 3 minutes, it loses all sense of danger. There's no anger or vengeance in anyone's actions. The acting is gone and instead the steps and swings come in and have to be on their marks, right where they can simply be countered.

To each their own I suppose, but the lightsaber battles exemplify what's wrong with every single thing about the prequels. There's no human emotion in them. Its all carefully planned and orchestrated, without surprises or nuance, step here, swing here so you hit his sword here, spin now twist and block, 2..3..4 step ball change.

Morde and Argyle nail on the head.


Yep. Bang on

I will say that I do like one fight scene in the prequel series, but that's because by ROTS I had realized that Count Dooku was the protagonist (since he's more likable than Anakin and company).  To defend anything besides McDiarmid in the prequels is no easy task, so bear with me while I make a case here.  Since Sidious is working on replacing Dooku, there's actual tension, something for our hero to struggle against and overcome, kind of like our own little Luke Skywalker. Since Anakin is inexorably unlikable (at least by an adult) and Obi-Wan is bland and under-explored at best, it's not hard to find yourself rooting for the Count.  Anakin has no patience, respect, intelligence, or good lines, so we're glad to see him get his arm sliced off in AOTC, assuming we're still conscious that far into the "movie".  For someone watching the movie in retrospect (since we've all seen the prequels before), this is Dooku's high point, the part where the protagonist is doing well, like our own little death start exploding (except profoundly less interesting).  I say "retrospect" because to a first-time viewer it's more like a coma.  Anyway, everything is going well, Anakin is incapacitated, the Count as a character is ripening, and Obi-Wan should be no match for him (and isn't).  Onto the Sith award ceremony for his medal.

By ROTS we know that Dooku is a fallen jedi, that he apprenticed under Yoda, that he whooped Obi-Wan and Anakin (despite Sith Lords being their "speciality"), trained Qui-Gonn, etc.  Dooku's humanity is brought out (if only a little bit) in his history with the jedi, his strange relationship with his former master, and his willingness to work together with Obi-Wan, his grandstudent so to speak, to destroy Sidious. This gives him some contrast. On one hand, he's a Sith Lord, the only bad guy that had done anything since Darth Maul randomly attacked Naboo for some reason. On the other, he's a former jedi, an estranged friend of Yoda. He doesn't mindlessly attack everything (like Maul and Grievous), but he still does things (unlike Palpatine). When he fights, he spits game first, ridicules his opponents, and sometimes even shoots lightning out of his fingers- he didn't just whoosh. He even taunted Samuel Jackson! Showing him fighting Yoda, as mind-numbing as that fight was, pointed to him being a powerful Sith (unlike Darth Maul who fell to a padawan), and his continued presence in two movies made him almost memorable.

By the beginning of ROTS Palpatine is actively trying to kill Dooku by masterminding needlessly complicated evil plots, and Anakin and Obi-Wan are lured into a confrontation. Assuming that Doku isn't as foolish as the jedi, he's probably not entirely trusting of Sidious (recall that he attempted to plot to destroy him with Obi), so he might be cognizant of the possibility that Sidious doesn't intend on Dooku surviving the encounter. Sure he beat the two jedi previously, but it's still a 2v1, and this time he's up against a peaking jedi prodigy and a soon-to-be jedi master, one Yoda thinks highly of.  Contrast this with the aging Goku, and don't forget the common knowledge that his mastered lightsaber form, Makashi or Form II (Contention), is less effective against multiple adversaries and generally considered obsolete (not to mention countered the brute force of Anakin's preferred form).

Despite all this, he walks into the Empire Strikes Back-esque throne room prisoner room calm and collected, popping a front flip over the railing. He doesn't mindlessly or silently attack like Darth Mute or spin fourteen lightsabers around like Captain Grievance. In fact, he doesn't even ignite his lightsaber (yes this is really in the prequels)!

No, instead Dooku politely requests that Anny and Obi hand over their weapons, so that they "don't make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor". Clearly, Dooku is a Sith Lord of refinement, fitting for his dainty (somewhat-unbelievable) combat style. Immediately however, the jedi pull out their laser swords and start whoosh. It's largely uninteresting here, but it's worth pointing out that despite Dooku's physical, technical, and situational disadvantages, he appears to effortlessly deflect every single blow from both of his aggressors.

Aware of our suffering, Dooku stops the seizure-inducing choreography and points out that he's been "looking forward" to fighting them again.  Goku is confident and passionate about what he's doing- he beat them before and he is determined to again (kind of like the second death star).  Anakin communicates his most recent scouter reading (9000 or so), but Dooku shuts him down with some witty commentary, and back to whoosh.

Dooku throws Obi back gracefully with a force push, giving him a chance to 1v1 Anakin, but his chance is cut short when Obi-Wan surprises everyone by defeating the powerful super battle droids (couldn't resist).  Suddenly our polite and kind-hearted hero is surrounded on both sides by the vicious jedi scum.

This is the part that I like, the brief moment that I'm trying to make a case for not being complete garbage like the rest of the prequels.

Showing off his dark-side powers, Dooku deflects Obi's and Anakin's simultaneous attacks, force chokes Obi-Wan, kicks Anakin back, throws Obi-Wan over the railing, and then summons the force to crush him under debris.  This had me cheering but it's short-lived.  Queue mindless whoosh again, this time with Anakin 1v1.  The final part I like about this fight, Count Dooku stops the whoosh again (thank god) and says, "I sense great fear in you Skywalker.  You have hate, you have anger, but you don't use them."  This may nothing compared to "Luminous beings are we" and so on, but for the prequels, it's gold.

That's it.  The rest of the fight is awful.

The nerd level on this thread has surpassed my threshold.

If there's no more interest in the god-awful prequels, how does everyone feel about the new trilogy? Consistent casting, lightsaber hilts, throwback actors, no more Lucas, Darth Mouse- it seems like it will be radically different from the prequels.

I've not seen this before...

lol, ya know, sorta reminds me of all the crap being injected into SotA... It's so dense!

Just another way to milk fans of their money, on a hope and wish to rekindle the past.